Vagina Museum

And be obedient and subversive even in 2022!
I hope they are quick learners because, fact, it takes years of indoctrination.

I'm not a victim
I'm relieved to hear that Violetsky because that is not how it appears from your posts on several threads.

Please don't keep thinking that, if posters disagree with you, that you are a victim.
You and they just have a different point of view.

I'm not stupid either

So there we are

I could just ignore people who are disrespectful but there are so so many complaints if I don't answer

I am just in an impossible position here really

Smileless2012

I agree trisher that publicising women's issues is a positive thing. Publicising trans women's issues is also a good thing but should not be done under the umbrella of women's issues because they are not women.

Smileless2012 I don't believe in the resurrection of Christ, but if there is a website which belongs to Christians who do believe in the resurrection they have a perfact right to post about it.
Just as intersectional feminists who believe transwomen are women have the right to post about it.
You may disagree with them. You may question their beliefs. But only dictators insist on imposing their views on other people.

Chewbacca why do you have to bring all of those issues into this discussion? Perhaps because you realise trying to silence the women at the Vagina museum is indefensible. It's a straw man argument. And this is about women trying to silence other women, which apparently is acceptable because you don't agree with their views. That's very dangerous ground.

Chewbacca

^Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?^

No trisher, you're muddling up the "keep quiet" narrative with what natal women are being told when they raise any concerns about people with penis's being in their safe spaces, prisons, rape crisis centres, Girl Guides, Brownies, changing rooms, toilets, domestic violence safe houses and lesbian groups. And if they dare to raise their concerns about this they're shouted down for being "transphobic," transactivists, terfs and "true feminist deniers". So if trans women are experiencing being told to KEEP quiet, well then they'd better get used to it. We've lived like this for millennia and we're still being told to KEEP QUIET, MOVE OVER, SHUT UP AND BE KIND.

Do you mean these issues trisha?

You keep moving your goalposts though VioletSky so it's difficult to hold a discussion with you. Firstly you say that threads on this subject invariably have you needing to hide them. When I concur that that's possibly for the best, you gaslight me by saying that I'm "putting the onus on you to avoid the threads". Then, when I clarify that I was actually agreeing with your original statement and that no one is compelled to comment, you gaslight me again by saying that I'm simply confirming that the onus is on you to avoid them! You wrong foot us again by saying t
Then you say that you "don't see comments in real time (??)" and need time to answer questions asked of you but then don't clarify, even some time later, what you mean by "majority comments" and "majority views". I genuinely have no idea what you mean by this and wonder why one is more dismissable than the other?
You do appear to take any posts that don't concur with your way of thinking very personally and so it's difficult to hold a discussion, where feelings and opinions are strong and deep, when one is walking on eggshells and trying to keep abreast of the moving goalposts.

I thought that is was the museum that had silenced replies.

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

VioletSky

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

Projection

And this is about women trying to silence other women

No trisher, it's trans women trying to silence natal women.

The "straw man" issues that you refer to are purely and simply the absolute facts of what women have been told to change, in order that trans women be accommodated. Not one of the examples that I've quoted can be denied or refuted. And if you think that anyone of them can be; please show me.

I thought that is was the museum that had silenced replies. Exactly so Ilovecheese. Odd that innit?

Chewbacca no, you simply did not hear my comment as it was intended

I have clarified and you have chosen to discredit me by saying I am gaslighting instead of me showing you that the inflection that is missing in type (without my realising as I typed it) would be there on my speaking voice.

I have a lifetime of experience of gaslighting as you know from my abusive childhood and I would never do that to another person. I would have to be a really disgusting awful human being to behave in that way.

I think you need to look at context more

By majority comments I meant that the majority of comments may say one thing on these threads where the OP is clearly not accepting of trans people... Transitioning fully... but that on other threads people show great kindness and support towards tran people... They just aren't saying it here and I don't blame them

I'm not going to complain that my questions don't get answered because it doesn't actually worry me, people have a right to choose whether to answer and no one owes me anything

I have no issue with transectional feminists posting about their belief that trans women are women trisher as I have posted so fail to see why you state otherwise.

As far as I'm aware the Vagina Museum is not about men who have trans gendered and chosen to have had their genitalia removed and replaced with a surgically made vagina, it's about women's vagina's and women's issues.

So, IMO for those running the museum to choose to celebrate trans women on International Women's day is wrong. It is taking a day, one day of the year to celebrate women and subverting it.

If as posted earlier on this thread, the museum silenced responses to this then who do you suppose are the dictators? They are the women trying to silence women, women who don't believe that trans women are women, because they're not.

I think that on threads where someone is talking about a child who is confused about things, most people would be 'kind' and supportive - of course we would.

That doesn't mean that we support the ideology that makes confused children leap to the conclusion that they have been 'born in the wrong body', or that it is possible to change sex. It's just that we feel sympathy for a fellow poster who is trying to cope with a looking-glass world, and hope that her grandchild will be ok, unlike the numerous young people who are desperately trying to de-transition.

VioletSky

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

But we're not.

You're putting to your own personal interpretation on this.

trisher seems to be perfectly capable of arguing her points in an objective way without making it personal.

I can disagree with trisher without making it personal and I hope we both respect that.

It's not about us as far as I know.
I could be wrong.

Chewbacca no, you simply did not hear my comment as it was intended Difficult with the written word; it reads as it reads. You haven't been "discredited", I've simply explained why it feels that you're wrong footing us. Perhaps it's due to the inadequacies of the written word and the inevitable lack of inflection and expression that a true discussion would enable. But I'm uncomfortable with discussing your own personal history on this thread and so will leave that with you.

I'm becoming ever more enamoured with JKRowling. Today she tweeted "Woman. They who must not be named." Long may she continue to fight long and hard for women's voices to be heard.

Despite the threats and the vile abuse she's received she will not be silenced will she Chewbacca and neither will we.

Oh, she's great, isn't she!

I say what I think

I literally have no filter at all. I'm likely autistic, baring in mind I work in SEN, have a diagnosed daughter and have had colleagues point this out to me lol

I'm lucky I generally don't think many horrible things

It's weird though, when you think I have been told that "cis" is offensive to others, I have stopped saying it. When I have been called passive aggressive I've apologised and tried to make sure I don't come across that way. When I've been insulted I haven't thrown any back.

So what's wrong with pointing out when something puts me off a discussion or speaking to a person?

Or am I not the right sort of woman?

Sorry Chrwbacca you were quite comfortable bringing up my personal history before so it can be hard to keep up

I appreciate the round about acknowledgement that I was nit gaslighting. That did make me uncomfortable

Yes she is Callistemon.

JKR is quite wonderful, isn't she?

She has really used her £££ for good. As well as giving huge amounts to charity, she is able to speak for the disenfranchised without being scared of bankruptcy, as she can fund lawyers to fight back. It's ridiculous that she should need to, as we are supposed to have free speech, but the TRAs have threatened her with all manner of vile things, and she basically laughs in their faces, whereas other victims of their campaigns lose their jobs and reputations simply for having an opinion.

She's also witty enough to run rings around the 'poor me' Twitterati who retreat behind 'you are being horrible - what about my mental health ?', and show them for the craven bullies they are.

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1500890856265498626?s=21
(you might have to scroll up to the top of the page - I'm hopeless at linking to Twitter)

Or am I not the right sort of woman?
What on Earth do you mean by this?

Sorry VioletSky but this thread isn't about you, your past, your profession or your family, as riveting as that might be; it's about trans women thinking that they are natal women and the impact on all of us and that's all I want to discuss here. I'm happy for you to believe that I've acknowledged that you weren't gaslighting me; I have no skin invested either way as to how that makes you feel. Please, keep to the topic, for the sake of everyone who's interested in it.