Vagina Museum

JKR has been in a Twatter spat with Laura Penny this week and she's just seamlessly agile in her ability and articulacy on women's rights. She's been accused of inflicting post traumatic disorder to the transactivists, despite them wishing death and harm to her and her family for years now.

That's the Twatter spat I meant Doodledog! She's sublime in her responses and completely out classes all insults and accusations hurled at her.

The reason the museum closed down the reply option is obvious. The posts were about transwomen in history. The anti-trans lobby would of course have tried to take over and much as on this thread introduce complete irrelevancies simply to publicise their own agenda and views. It's completely understandable.
As far as I can see few if any transwomen are involved in the running of the Vagina museum but even if they are accusing them of trying to silence natal women because of posts about transwomen ,by women, seems a bit extreme. These are natal women posting about transwomen and their right to do this is being challenged.
And now I'm off this thread. Because all these discussions do is give biased and discriminatory people a chance to post their unacceptable and insupportable views, by accusing transwomen of things they haven't done, by stirring up fears and division. That's why the comments on the tweets were turned off. Because intersectional (not transectional) feminists refuse to engage in arguments which are simply an excuse to promote biased views to such an extent that (as on this thread) some are unable to discuss any matter without introducing irrelevancies. And even unable to permit other women to post anything which they do not agree with. As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech.

Really?

I tend to view things a bit differently

Knowing a little bit about people, their past, their background, their education and their experiences actually makes it easier for me to understand and empathise with their views

No its not about me but I went to bed and work and came back to 11 quotes, 1 comment saying I'm not a feminist and 1 saying I'm stupid.

I'm still unsure that reacting to that was really wrong or that being forced to defend that is really me making a thread about me?

If I were simply allowed to express my thoughts as an equal we wouldn't have ended up here. Others have expressed their views more strongly and received far less feedback...

Of course I should not take that personally?

I think we shall have to be identified, what sex were you at birth, you can’t have all these different categories on forms. That Russian swimmer, big burley, muscular, was obviously male, yet identified as female despite winning races as a male but now wanted to win as female, you couldn’t make it up. That’s just bonkers, they must be mentally ill.

Well refusing to engage is something that an individual decides for themselves but turning off people to prevent them from expressing a view you don’t like is exactly the repressive regime you speak of.

So that will the intersectional feminists at the museum, won’t it. A regime that silences the views of women whose views don’t fit the regime.

As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech.

Yeah, ask Kathleen Stock about that.

Precisely so Allsorts, it doesn't make for a level playing field for the natal women athletes does it. I'd have no issue for trans women competing in any field of sport in their own category but to pit them against smaller, lighter, less muscled natal women, creates a huge disparity that must be soul destroying to the female competitors.

If trisher is gone, not much point staying

Laters

VS, Why do you think you know more about 'people, their past, their background, their education and their experiences' than others?

On other threads you have said that you have seen transpeople on videos talking about their experiences, which is not the same thing as knowing them.

I have no idea why you think that it is easier for you to understand and empathise with people than it is for others on this thread. Can you explain why you think that is the case?

VS
So what's wrong with pointing out when something puts me off a discussion or speaking to a person?
Nothing - as long as you don’t strop or sulk when someone does the same?l.

Or am I not the right sort of woman?
Explain please? What is the right sort of woman to which you refer?

Today 21:06 VioletSky

Sorry Chrwbacca you were quite comfortable bringing up my personal history before so it can be hard to keep up.

VS, Who was it posted information about you, your feelings, your job etc. earlier in this thread?
Mmm now let me see . . . Oh yes, it was you VS. I think you talked about it making you hide these threads.
This thread isn’t about you, except when you try to make it so.

Calling you stupid was wrong.

Saying you’re not a feminist is a point of view. There are many different views as to what constitutes feminism. Many posters here have been told they are not “real” feminists.

But nobody has stopped you from expressing your views as an equal, violetsky. Posters can chose to respond to individual posts or not.

Personally I think I made an excellent post a while back but holy anyone, yourself included, responded to it. Does that mean I being ignored, not being treated as an equal?

VioletSky

If trisher is gone, not much point staying

Laters

Oh wow. A gang?

The Maya Forstater court case begins on Monday. So far £164,409 has been crowdfunded to pay her legal fees. I can't describe how much I admire Maya; she's been fired from a job that she loved and excelled in simply for stating:
I believe that while it is right that people should be free to express their identity and trans people should never be badly treated simply for being trans, the material reality of a person’s sex cannot literally change, and in situations where sex matters, it is sex that matters.

I tweeted and wrote about this in the context of the government proposals to allow people to change their legal sex through a simple self-declaration, and what this would mean for women’s rights.

I was not accused of harassing any colleagues and I stated that I will use preferred pronouns out of courtesy. Nevertheless the judge ruled that my belief, in itself, failed the test of being
^ “worthy of respect in a democratic society, compatible with human dignity and not in conflict^ with the fundamental rights of others” (This is part of the “Grainger Criteria” for being a protected belief).

The belief I hold; that women are adult human females, and that a person with a penis is not, in fact, a woman is shared by most people around the world. In the UK, while 1 in 5 people are willing to say that they believe that a person with full male anatomy can be a woman, 3 out of 5 do not (the rest say they don’t know or prefer not to say).

The ability to speak clearly about the material reality of sex is important for children, parents, people in relationships, teachers, health and social care professionals, scientists and other academics, policy makers, the media, the police, the judiciary, athletes and sporting bodies.

It is important for everyone in their everyday lives that we can talk about the two sexes. We can treat everyone with mutual politeness and respect, but this does not demand that we deny reality.

Being able to talk clearly about the two sexes underpins the ability to fight sex discrimination, to undertake scientific research and collect statistics, to safeguard children and vulnerable people, to give children clear sex education and protect them from harm, for women to have control and autonomy over who gets to see and touch our bodies, to have women’s sports, and to protect the rights of lesbians and gay men. It is also relevant to other areas of discrimination including on the basis of religion, race and disability. And it is important for transsexuals and those suffering from gender dysphoria, in particular children and young people.

The Judge argued there is nothing to stop people like me campaigning against proposals to change the law to allow people to change their legal sex through "self ID", and to keep single sex services, but that we should use terms such as “women assigned male at birth” and “women assigned female at birth” instead of male and female.

In practice this makes it impossible to say why single sex services and women’s sports matter - because sex matters. The suppression of ordinary language makes this impossible to talk about clearly.

I am just the tip of an iceberg. Many people have been silenced or disciplined at work and in political parties and associations for speaking up on safeguarding, and for the need for a reality based debate about law and policy on sex and gender identity.

The judgment in this case has already been used against me in other situations; to turn me down for work and to judge that my "suitability for Scouting" should be put into question.

S^ince my case became news I have heard from so many people who have been disciplined at^ work, forced to recant and apologise, or made unemployable for saying the simple truth that human beings are male or female and that they cannot change sex. There are many, many others who are afraid to speak up.

I worked at a think tank; a research institution that I thought stood for independence, intellectual rigour, evidence- based policy and willingness to challenge powerful institutions. These are my values. But I found out that I was not allowed to apply them to this topic.

CGD's representative stood up in court and compared my views to naziism.

R^obert Wintemute an international human rights lawyer and pioneer of gay rights has written^ about my case . He said whether one agrees or disagrees with my belief in two immutable b^iological sexes, it can hardly be put at the same level as Holocaust denial or incitement to^ violence. He argues (as my legal team will too) that the tribunal erred in law

The case is to be heard next week and I'll be rooting for her every inch of the way.

trisher!!
Not like you to give up.

I hope you haven't left altogether.
I might not always agree with you (!) but you are never personal.

Oh wow. A gang?

As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech

No-one is restricting your free speech, trisher
This is not Russia, it's Gransnet, and to compare the two at the present time really is not acceptable.

It's not like you to give up.

No one can keep defending the indefensible forever Callistemon!

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

Pressed post too soon. Of course having used female anatomy to gestate two babies sort of belies the "living as a man" declaration Freddie made to receive a GRC, but hey what's a lie or two between friends? GRC issued, stop the testosterone to enable a pregnancy, something only the female of every mammalian species can do.

Rosie51

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

In other words, she's a Mum!

Freddie is a name attributable to men and women.

Callistemon21

Rosie51

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

In other words, she's a Mum!

Freddie is a name attributable to men and women.

Oh I fully agree! I was pleased that Freddie's attempt not to be registered as mother on the birth certificate failed. That certificate is the child's property not a vanity validation for the parent. I just think if the vagina museum had any logic they might just have cottoned on to transmen did and probably still do have a vagina, while transwomen have never, ever had the real thing.

Careful Callistemon it's talk like that that got Maya Forstater sacked and facing a court of law that likened to her as a Nazi. See my post above ☝️

It's Ok Callistemon I'll bake a cake with a hidden file so you can escape from your jail cell ?

Oh! The Thought Police may be tracking me down.
I do have a bag packed ready (my hospital bag)

But it just seemed logical to me that female with vagina -> cervix -> womb -> ovaries with eggs meeting sperm produced by male resulted in baby (if you're lucky).
But that was GCE Biology, valid since the world began but which may have changed recently.