Another baby killed

We only ever had one cat that was a voracious killer and she was a British Shorthair silver tabby, and I later read that silver tabbies were the worst when it came to killing birds and rodents. No idea why the colour should make a difference.

I have no problem with cats - and they are out killing - my DD's cat leaves little offerings on the doorstep all the time as do most cats. That is fine - that is what they are. That is what they are programmed to do.

Your cat catches mice - do you have sympathy with the mice?

I am not saying you should have - just that I recognise the inconsistencies in our approach to animals. The choices we make about the good and the bad, the useful (to us) and the non-useful, those worth preserving and those that can die out as far as we care. It is all inconsistent and I find that fascinating.

We are only in this situation with dogs because of our attitude to them - that they are there for US, and for us to choose what they do and how they should behave. And when they don't ..... owners get rid of them, leave them around uncared-for because they have not lived up to their expectations. The choices made in relation to dogs impinge on us all - even those who do not have them. We all are stuck with having to learn to live with them whether we like it or not, because some people choose to have them. That does not mean that we all like it!

Oh dear, back to dogs again. I think Lucygirl, that you are just not an animal lover in any shape or form, which is ok, but for those of us who are, or at least understand why a lot of people are, your complete misunderstanding and negative attitude towards the animal kingdom, dogs in particular is just a little irritating.

It sounds a bit like PETA indoctrination to be honest. People think that PETA’s aim is to protect animals rights but they actually believe (from what I can gather) that no one should have pets of any kind. Their long term plan, from what I can gather, is that animals probably won’t exist at all un less they’re in a totally wild form.

I have no problem with cats - and they are out killing - my DD's cat leaves little offerings on the doorstep all the time as do most cats. That is fine - that is what they are. That is what they are programmed to do.

I find well-fed cats unnecessarily killing beautiful birds very distressing and cats in the UK kill around 50 million birds a year.

Saying that is what they are programmed to do is just an excuse - dogs also are programmed to hunt and kill prey as they still do in the wild (dingoes, wolves) but when domesticated can be taught not to do that. Perhaps cats should be kept indoors and just taken out on a collar and lead as is the law in parts of Australia.

It is irresponsible dog breeders, owners who are to blame and those who are daft enough to adopt street dogs from overseas as a friend did. She, despite being an experienced dog owner, is having problems with the dog she had brought over from Eastern Europe.

Luckygirl, are you vegan? Many vegans are opposed to pets, including dogs cats and horses. I’ve never understood where or how they expect these liberated creatures to livE

We train our children in various ways. My adorable six year old grandsons could go feral without the loving care, boundaries, expectations, stimulation, routines and do on their parents provide

I’m on an enclosed field so my bouncy young lab can sniff and wander before we practice some steadiness and retreives. I’m not bending him to my will or stopping him being the wild attacking Woolf that may exist in a tor nail. We are enjoying each other and strengthening the
bond. He won’t be running free at our parkland until he’s matured a bit and recall is 100 percent

I have no problem with dogs that are under control and whose owners understand that they have a duty not to allow them to annoy others - and who understand that what they find cute, others do not - e.g. jumping up, slobbering, yapping at you etc. But there are such a large number of owners who do not fall into that category.

Sadly there are many many owners who leave them to roam about, or who watch them being a nuisance and do nothing, and who regard their dogs as a status symbol - a macho accessory. And, as we know, there are those who acquire particularly dangerous breeds and people (usually small ones) get hurt or killed.

I am not an animal lover, in the sense that I have no wish to have them in my house, but I am in the sense that I think we should be sure that what we do to make these animals into pets and companions is not at too high a price for their well-being. I have respect for the animal kingdom and feel no desire to make any animal be something that it is not for my own pleasure.

I am not vegan - but I do not eat red meat.

Cats will kill for the sake of it, and torture their prey first. They seem to consider it a game. I’ve had many well-fed cats over the years and been sad to see them ‘doing what comes naturally’. Lovely animals but very cruel.

Saying that is what they are programmed to do is just an excuse - dogs also are programmed to hunt and kill prey as they still do in the wild (dingoes, wolves) but when domesticated can be taught not to do that.

I do not think cats can be trained not to hunt, which is why many owners put a bell round their necks to warn prey.

Training dogs not to do that sounds OK up to a point, but the instinct is always there. My friend's terrier is fine till it sees a squirrel for example then off it goes for the kill. And pretty bloody it is too. And a lot of the instances where a dog attacks are because someone (often a small person who does not know that this pet harbours basic instincts that pose a danger) has done something that triggers the that primitive reaction.

Lucky, I assure you that responsible dog owners do not find jumping up, slobbering or unnecessary yapping ‘cute’.

Your last paragraph Lucky. How can you possibly know that. You jump to conclusions to suit your argument as I have said before. From what I have seen of uncontrolled small children around dogs, they don’t understand the difference between a pet and a toy and poke them around or even hit them with toys. Little surprise that the dog feels it has to defend itself.

GSM I remember when a very young DD got on the floor to play at a friend's house - we didn't realise their cat was under the table. DD got very badly scratched.
The same cat had earlier brought in two rats from the nearby farm and laid them neatly on the kitchen floor.
I was worried as cat scratches can cause infection which can lead to sepsis. DD was fine thank goodness.
Another cat belonging to family used to bite and scratch unexpectedly (it would lie in wait for unwary visitors).

They are not lovely, affectionate, loyal creatures as dogs can be.

My friend's terrier is fine till it sees a squirrel for example then off it goes for the kill. And pretty bloody it is too
He must be fast!

Thank goodness a family dog killed a venomous snake before it got to a very young DGS.

We had a visit from a Therapet dog at the special needs centre where I work today. It was heartwarming to see how the children responded to her visit - we're talking about under-fives, many of whom are on the autistic spectrum and find it hard to engage or interact with many people. One mum was in tears watching her boy with the dog. This is the flip side of the coin...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-60640561
I don’t remember reading about this three weeks ago but it appeared in the BBC newsfeed today and appears to be yet another baby killed it seems to be so regularly happening there’s just got to be something done

And again the one I spoke of yesterday sounds as if it’s a random attack and not the family dog

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-60904890

Luckygirl3

I have no problem with dogs that are under control and whose owners understand that they have a duty not to allow them to annoy others - and who understand that what they find cute, others do not - e.g. jumping up, slobbering, yapping at you etc. But there are such a large number of owners who do not fall into that category.

Sadly there are many many owners who leave them to roam about, or who watch them being a nuisance and do nothing, and who regard their dogs as a status symbol - a macho accessory. And, as we know, there are those who acquire particularly dangerous breeds and people (usually small ones) get hurt or killed.

I am not an animal lover, in the sense that I have no wish to have them in my house, but I am in the sense that I think we should be sure that what we do to make these animals into pets and companions is not at too high a price for their well-being. I have respect for the animal kingdom and feel no desire to make any animal be something that it is not for my own pleasure.

I am not vegan - but I do not eat red meat.

So you agree that it is the fault of irresponsible dog owners?

Cats are the wildest of "domesticated" animals. They are out and about killing all the time - as is only right - that is their nature. They come "home" because food and warmth are freely available. Nobody really owns a cat.
So should these creatures ever have been domesticated? What is the point of them? It's not right that there should be such a huge proliferation of cats out and about killing all the time, it really isn't.
Roaming and defecating in other people's gardens too.

I feel so sorry for the children and their families in these case.

I also remember a documentary I saw on TV a couple of years ago about people who walk their dogs in a park in London. One man with a very small son had a huge dog. The film followed the family back to their tiny flat where the small boy lifted the dog's ear and repeatedly blew a shrill whistle right into the dog's ear. The father didn't intervene and the poor dog just had no choice but to put up with it. It was cruel and painful to watch.

Obviously tragic accidents do happen, but small children around dogs need as much training and control as dogs do generally.

My small terrier was raised alongside 4 small children and is happy and gentle with them, but just occasionally a child hares up to her in the street and immediately thrust a hand out or, one one occasion tries to pick her up. I intervene, but if I didn't and the dog bit who would be at fault?

Breaking news:

An 8 year old boy has serious facial injuries in Cannock, also a 6 year old girl and a woman injured:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-60904890

A 2 year old boy fighting for life in Worcestershire (not dangerous dog breeds):
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10660591/Boy-two-fights-life-hospital-attacked-two-dogs.html

These attacks are happening more and more. We've now got four children dead or seriously injured which have just made the headlines. There are far too many dogs and no controls in place. When are they going to have some legislations and licencing for dogs?

I know, Coastpath. It's always the dog's fault and it's pts before the true facts are known. If children aren't brought up around pets and taught how to interact with them safely and respectfully it's an accident waiting to happen. However well trained a dog is, it has only one way of defending itself if attacked.

When are they going to have some legislations and licencing for dogs?

I agree that it is needed, Chestnut

BlueBelle

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-60640561
I don’t remember reading about this three weeks ago but it appeared in the BBC newsfeed today and appears to be yet another baby killed it seems to be so regularly happening there’s just got to be something done

It's not regularly happening @BlueBelle. There are less than 6 fatalities per year from dogs (see link earlier in thread). We hear about them because they are awful but fatalities are rare. Bites and attacks are another matter.

I agree too Chestnut.

More legislation and licensing for owners, breeders and the selling of dogs in any form. I believe all sensible dog owners would welcome this.

I’m afraid the Dangerous Dogs act isn’t fir for purpose.
The point has been well made on this thread that people are responsible when dogs attack. There are too many people who have no idea about the kind of care, time, effort and energy that goes into helping a pup grow into the best dog it can be. Children should never be left alone with any dog.
Responsible owners don’t post daft photographs or videos of their toddler lying on the dog, posing with its face next to the dog, tormenting the dog .

I am afraid you are in denial argymargy maimed for life is as bad or worse than killed
2 babies killed in this month only so a third of the way to your entire number in just three weeks !!!