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Prince Louie going through THAT stage

(299 Posts)
BlueBelle Tue 07-Jun-22 14:55:21

That was a right old strop prince Louie pulled off watching the parade with poor Kate trying to be firm in the midst of the worlds eyes He pulled faces, he thumbed his nose tried to smack her face a few times I think that he needed the naughty step , I wonder if that’s where he went when they got home He’s obviously ‘the character’ in the family

Elegran Wed 08-Jun-22 16:25:08

volver

This is an interesting discussion.

How far should we go? Should I be expected to forego the interesting trip that I had been looking forward to for a couple of weeks and paid good money for, because a group of children want to scream and run around in a noisy and intrusive way? And the adult with them is unable to do anything about it? Do you think all of 10 or so of them were neurodivergent?

Ten children with one adult is not a successful ratio, unless the adult is trained and/or experienced in handling them. With children you have to deal with each case of over-excitement (euphemism alert) separately and calm down the perpetrator, which doesn't work if the rest of them are also high as kites. That group should have had at least two other adults, and they should have had some experience of children en masse, preferably with the same children that they were supervising, so that they knew in advance which individuals would need most calming.

Josanne's colleague has hit it on the nail about there being a "family clown" usually a boy and/or the youngest child, but not always. The more he is rebuked, the worse he gets, and punishments seem to run off him like water off a duck's back. It is as though being noticed for being bad is better than not being noticed at all - and he is often a child who is either ignored by his parents or over-shadowed by older or cleverer siblings, so misbehaving is his moment of attention. There is often a "class clown" too - the same description. We all know adults who have never outgrown the phase.

I don't know whether Louis fits this description or not, I haven't observed him for long enough, but I do imagine that the day of that concert must have been about the most exciting of his life. He must have been up early and travelled for ages. He'd been to Wales for Jubilee celebrations there, then back for the concert, with lots of noise and colour and pageantry, and thousands of people, and all his family present and enjoying the event, but there wasn't much in it that would interest a boy of 4. That was a long day for a small boy, and he must have been very tired. His attention span at that age just isn't enough to sit still for hours "being good" although he is tired and bored. No wonder he was restive.

I thought his mother was doing her best to keep him from exploding. "Uncle Mike" would have been better to keep out of it, or produce something to take his attention. He needed a distraction, not criticism. Someone could have had a colouring book and a packet of felt tips, and challenge him to colour a whole page without going over the lines with a prize if he succeeded, or produce an Ipad with some games on it.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Jun-22 16:45:00

You've given me an idea, volver. I will change my used name to Childcatcher. I've had too many outings ruined by other people's noisy little darlings.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Jun-22 16:45:15

Username ...

Lulu16 Wed 08-Jun-22 16:48:59

Every time my boys were sitting still or quiet, I used to wonder what was wrong!! I don't think my grandsons ever sit still when they are talking to me, they walk around!
The royal children are lovely and it was a long concert for a little one. It was great to see all the royal children throughout the celebrations.

Doodledog Wed 08-Jun-22 17:01:21

For the record, I don't think that either Tarquin or Ariadne was neurodivergent (although I don't know, and it was certainly the case that their parents were oblivious to social cues from other people). They were simply too young to be there, their parents seemed to see themselves and their children as 'special cases' and their behaviour spoilt the experience for others.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Jun-22 17:06:02

Would anyone here be happy to be in, say, a restaurant where they might reasonably expect to enjoy a calm and pleasant time, and have a child behaving like Louis turn up at the next table shattering the peace?

Galaxy Wed 08-Jun-22 17:16:43

I imagine he would have behaved more appropriately at a restaurant. Having a meal as a child is very different to being asked to sit through tedious entertainment for hours.

Helenlouise3 Wed 08-Jun-22 17:17:09

I work in a classroom of 4 year olds and see this type of behaviour every day. He's expressing himself in his own little way and personally I think he's a delightful little character.

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:18:32

Oo I love a foodie discussion Germanshepherdsmum!

It depends on the restaurant. If I were in the likes of Zizzi's or Franke & Benny's then I would probably expect noisy, excitable kids to go with the territory. I did ask to be moved in a Selfridges restaurant once because the little tikes at the next table were dropping food all around us. (I was given a free glass of wine!)
If I were at Mere, Rules or Le Gavroche (you get the picture), then I would be very unhappy. Luckily, I think most parents have their heads screwed on as to which dining establishments suit their kids.

volver Wed 08-Jun-22 17:18:42

And if he didn't, as in the examples of badly behaved children on this thread?

Also on holiday....went to a restaurant, a child threw a short tantrum because her sausages were the wrong colour, or something...

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:22:07

Galaxy

I imagine he would have behaved more appropriately at a restaurant. Having a meal as a child is very different to being asked to sit through tedious entertainment for hours.

Interestingly my DGC sit beautifully in the restaurant on the Brittany Ferries and anywhere in France, because the food is served in such an appetising manner and the writers engage them throughout the service.
Sitting for hours watching a load of random people walking around was a different matter, but I think I understand why Louis and co were included.

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:23:47

*waiters not writers!

Galaxy Wed 08-Jun-22 17:26:50

Yes lots of the children I work with have complex difficulties around food so the wrong colour sausage would be quite stressful! I suspect I am not the right person to ask, I generally find the company of children who are neurotypical much more enjoyable than many neurotypical people I know. smile

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:28:31

Food is a very emotive issue.

Galaxy Wed 08-Jun-22 17:30:08

Children who are not neurotypical that should say

volver Wed 08-Jun-22 17:30:30

Oh now, come on.

I have no idea how many children in the country are neurodivergent. But as I said above, I have limited tolerance for tantrums and disturbing people's days out, and "she could be neurodivergent" is not the first thing I think of. Well actually it probably is but it doesn't make me any more tolerant of having my day ruined...

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:31:31

We designed ** with everyone in mind.

“ Please note for the consideration of our other guests we do not allow children under five years of age within the dining room “

Posh restaurant statement, seems reasonable.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Jun-22 17:31:41

We took our children to so called posh/expensive restaurants all round the world, some with Michelin Stars including Rules (oldest restaurant in London). Our AC do the same as do we with the GC.

In December we went to an upmarket London Hotel for a family meal 9 Adults, 7 GC aged from 2 through to 13.

We were greeted by professional tutters and grimaces. I am pleased to say that the GC were far better behaved than a fair few adults that evening. They joked, laughed and the older ones definitely pulled funny faces at the younger ones.

The staff were efficient as you would expect, and complimented the children whilst apologising for the behaviour/noise of a couple of the other diners.

volver Wed 08-Jun-22 17:34:51

Lived in France 30-odd years ago. Was very impressed by the fact that French children in restaurants were expected to sit properly at the table, and eat what the adults were eating.

Then we came back to the UK and it was like Armageddon. ?

Joseanne Wed 08-Jun-22 17:36:10

Rules have changed their policy to no under 10s now GG13. I don't know why?

Doodledog Wed 08-Jun-22 17:36:36

Germanshepherdsmum

Would anyone here be happy to be in, say, a restaurant where they might reasonably expect to enjoy a calm and pleasant time, and have a child behaving like Louis turn up at the next table shattering the peace?

Yes, a small child, who didn't seem to be making a noise but was pulling faces wouldn't bother me in the least. I wouldn't want a child running around, but as far as I could see Louis wasn't 'shattering the peace'.

I don't tend to go to deliberately 'child-friendly' restaurants, or go at times when children are still up and eating, though. If you (generic) go to Frankie & Benny's before 7.00, you can expect there to be children around, and young children don't always behave well.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Jun-22 17:37:11

volver

Lived in France 30-odd years ago. Was very impressed by the fact that French children in restaurants were expected to sit properly at the table, and eat what the adults were eating.

Then we came back to the UK and it was like Armageddon. ?

Seeping statement, other than a very occasional visit to McDonalds not a scenario I have witnessed.

Doodledog Wed 08-Jun-22 17:37:44

Sorry, Joseanne. You got there first.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Jun-22 17:38:06

^sweeping not seeping

FannyCornforth Wed 08-Jun-22 17:40:43

Galaxy

I imagine he would have behaved more appropriately at a restaurant. Having a meal as a child is very different to being asked to sit through tedious entertainment for hours.

It was a totally unnatural situation.
I’m my experience children that age aren’t even expected to sit through an assembly more than 30 minutes.
They are hard wired to become bored - their brains hunger for and thrive on almost constant stimulation