Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

I'm posting it again Blame shifting never helps solve anything

No one has asked women to deal with men's problems. We are however part of society as are transpeople and we all need to work to create a more tolerant and inclusive society. That isn't done by blaming one section and targeting them or by passing the responsibility for violence onto one section of society.
And certainly not by stirring up hate and division then standing back and blaming others.

Describing reality, detailing the section of society that commits most violent sexual assaults and describing the need for sex segregated spaces is not stirring up hate.

These replies vividly illustrate what I posted applies to all who pedal hatred

Not vividly enough, I'm afraid.

Are you accusing me of pedalling hatred? If not, who is being so accused? When you are so vague it is difficult to know how to respond, but if this is a dig at posters on this thread, I will break with my usual approach and report your comment. I will take a nil response as an admission, as just disappearing will not make this egregious insult disappear.

If there is another explanation for the comment, then that's obviously different, but as I say, the vagueness in which it is couched makes it difficult to understand.

Glorianny

I'm posting it again Blame shifting never helps solve anything

No one has asked women to deal with men's problems. We are however part of society as are transpeople and we all need to work to create a more tolerant and inclusive society. That isn't done by blaming one section and targeting them or by passing the responsibility for violence onto one section of society.
And certainly not by stirring up hate and division then standing back and blaming others.

Well actually, you have done exactly that. A few examples:
* When I and others have said that we are unhappy about men in our spaces you ask how we (as women) would police things to prevent it, knowing that this is very difficult, as you yourself point out regularly that it is not always easy to spot a transwoman. We are told that we must object if we would prefer transwomen not to be there, but not how we should do this, to whom, or at what point in the process (ie before the event, when we get there, or what, exactly?) If it is too late, and the event goes ahead with transwomen in attendance, it will be women who miss out if we don't attend, and if women just don't bother going, the same will apply. Objecting 'on the door' is likely to be risky, given the history of abuse towards women by TRAs. I am thinking here of events such as the Lesbian speed-dating, and of local sporting events such as women's rugby - not things that people wouldn't attend because of bigotry, but because of fear of abuse or injury.

* The reason you give for putting women at risk by being locked up with male prisoners is that there might be a risk of suicide if they are housed with other male criminals. This means that female prisoners are put at risk rather than the sex offending transwomen to whom we object. If special jails for transpeople are built, where will the budget come from? Will it mean fewer mother and baby units in women's jails? More prisoners being housed in cramped conditions? It seems unlikely that more money will be found to build new jails, but if that happens will it be women who occupy the new, modern space, or will they stay in poor conditions to free up funding for male offenders?

* When male athletes compete against women, it is women who oppose this who are accused of phobia and expected to find a way of making the competition fair without 'discriminating' against the men who want to compete against them. If the athlete is black, and fails the tests for being female, there are also accusations of racism.

* I have mentioned the situation in my place of work, where the one women's toilet block on the floor where I am based is now 'gender neutral', as well as accommodating the disabled and baby changing. The Gents are still there, for men only, so women struggle to pee between lectures, as our loos are used by everyone (including the general public, as the building is on a thoroughfare), and many women are reluctant to use them when it is dark or less busy than usual.

I could go on, but there is enough there to illustrate how I feel that women are expected to solve the issues. We either put up with it or complain (and get accused of peddling hatred).

No one has ever said transwomen should be accommodated in women's prisons Mollygo.
No Glorianny,
But you refuse to say that they shouldn’t be anccommodated there, even those who are convicted of rape and violence against females, or those who in addition to their crimes agains females, suddenly decide to say they’re trans.
You simply waffle on about making separate spaces which I agree with, as long as the separate spaces are not in female prisons. Why are you so keen that males guilty of violence against females are incarcerated on female sites?

I know little of the prison sector other than what is in the media, but it sounds pretty much unrelentingly grim, and TBH I don't approve of the idea that by 'identifying' as trans a sex offender (or any serious offender) should be housed in a newly built modern prison when people convicted of similar or lesser offences are in crumbling overcrowded conditions.

That is not in any way to persecute transpeople, but to be fair to everyone. I am sure that there would be people deciding to 'identify' as trans in order to get a place in a pleasanter jail, just as there are people claiming to be trans in order to get access to vulnerable women.

I repeat - this is not said to suggest that transpeople are dangerous. I say it because some men are dangerous, and giving special treatment to those who claim trans status by self-id will allow those men to take advantage of that in ways that are detrimental to women (or actively dangerous to women's safety).

Doodledog

Glorianny

I'm posting it again Blame shifting never helps solve anything

No one has asked women to deal with men's problems. We are however part of society as are transpeople and we all need to work to create a more tolerant and inclusive society. That isn't done by blaming one section and targeting them or by passing the responsibility for violence onto one section of society.
And certainly not by stirring up hate and division then standing back and blaming others.

Well actually, you have done exactly that. A few examples:
* When I and others have said that we are unhappy about men in our spaces you ask how we (as women) would police things to prevent it, knowing that this is very difficult, as you yourself point out regularly that it is not always easy to spot a transwoman. We are told that we must object if we would prefer transwomen not to be there, but not how we should do this, to whom, or at what point in the process (ie before the event, when we get there, or what, exactly?) If it is too late, and the event goes ahead with transwomen in attendance, it will be women who miss out if we don't attend, and if women just don't bother going, the same will apply. Objecting 'on the door' is likely to be risky, given the history of abuse towards women by TRAs. I am thinking here of events such as the Lesbian speed-dating, and of local sporting events such as women's rugby - not things that people wouldn't attend because of bigotry, but because of fear of abuse or injury.

* The reason you give for putting women at risk by being locked up with male prisoners is that there might be a risk of suicide if they are housed with other male criminals. This means that female prisoners are put at risk rather than the sex offending transwomen to whom we object. If special jails for transpeople are built, where will the budget come from? Will it mean fewer mother and baby units in women's jails? More prisoners being housed in cramped conditions? It seems unlikely that more money will be found to build new jails, but if that happens will it be women who occupy the new, modern space, or will they stay in poor conditions to free up funding for male offenders?

* When male athletes compete against women, it is women who oppose this who are accused of phobia and expected to find a way of making the competition fair without 'discriminating' against the men who want to compete against them. If the athlete is black, and fails the tests for being female, there are also accusations of racism.

* I have mentioned the situation in my place of work, where the one women's toilet block on the floor where I am based is now 'gender neutral', as well as accommodating the disabled and baby changing. The Gents are still there, for men only, so women struggle to pee between lectures, as our loos are used by everyone (including the general public, as the building is on a thoroughfare), and many women are reluctant to use them when it is dark or less busy than usual.

I could go on, but there is enough there to illustrate how I feel that women are expected to solve the issues. We either put up with it or complain (and get accused of peddling hatred).

To 1. I have never actually said that I have pointed out that policing places is difficult and making judgements by appearance impacts on women who choose to dress in an unconventional way. But the law is there. Saying that spaces for women are not protected by law is a little different to claiming the law is not practical. Perhaps you could decide which is applicable.

2.I haven't said women should find a way of making competitive sport more equal. I have pointed out that women are discriminated against in sport and that the European Court described the way women are treated as an abuse of human rights. I would have imagined that anyone who supported women would find such abuse unacceptable. It seems not.

3. Colonise the mens. Why not just change the sign yourselves? That's not putting responsibility on women it is empowering them. Or instead of moaning on here organise a petition write to the building managers.
Maya Angelou
A wise woman wishes to be no one's enemy; a wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim.

It is not empowering women to put them in a position where they could become hounded our of their roles and lose anonymity to the point where their lives would be made a misery, as brave women such as JKR, Kathleen Stock et al have done. It is loading the gun and getting them to fire it. Are you admitting that it is victimising women to allow them no private facilities though? That is a step forward, I suppose.

Of course I find abuse unacceptable, but accepting that women should always lose is not the answer to that. Again, my answer is that the way to deal with men in women's sport is not to allow it. Simple. If athletes fail to satisfy the committees that they are female they should be disqualified. I don't have a problem with that, whatever skin colour they have (which I see as irrelevant to this discussion).

WRT your first point, you have said both that it is not say (or was it possible?) to tell a transwoman from a woman, and even posted photos in an attempt to make the point. You have also said that if women would not attend an event because transwomen were going the transwomen would not be allowed. Which are you denying? I don't know why you are asking me which is applicable, as I have made neither claim. Are you hoping for a Gotcha? I can't help you there, sorry.

Finally, can you please clarify just who it is that you are accusing of pedalling hatred? Just so we know whether or not you are accusing people on here, and if not, who is being accused. TIA

2. Transwomen are male. Are you saying that human rights mean that females must accept male competitors in their sports.

Are you saying that it’s right to accept when males tell lies regarding their sex?

I have never seen you support female rights to female only teams.
I have seen you skirt round the issue with race, the fact that you are unable to tell the difference between male and female, or you bring in suggestions that it’s wrong to ask people to show their genitals, when no one other than you has suggested they should.

You make me laugh Gloriamny. I have no idea about others but I am involved in a range of actions on this issue. It's possible to do that and discuss the issue on here. Talking on the internet is actually one of the reasons most campaigns on this issue started.

Of course I find abuse unacceptable, but accepting that women should always lose is not the answer to that. Again, my answer is that the way to deal with men in women's sport is not to allow it. Simple. If athletes fail to satisfy the committees that they are female they should be disqualified. I don't have a problem with that, whatever skin colour they have (which I see as irrelevant to this discussion).

The abuse is perpetrated by the committees Doodledog The European Court agreed that the 2019 regulations perpetuate the arbitrary scrutiny of women’s bodies in ways that are degrading and invasive of privacy, on grounds that are scientifically contested. Such regulations are incompatible with respect for women’s rights to bodily integrity, freedom from cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, dignity, and non-discrimination.
That's the system you support

Galaxy

You make me laugh Gloriamny. I have no idea about others but I am involved in a range of actions on this issue. It's possible to do that and discuss the issue on here. Talking on the internet is actually one of the reasons most campaigns on this issue started.

I don't think I have said you aren't have I?

No that’s the system you support Glorianny.
You go off on little sideways trails into all the areas I mentioned before, ignoring males like Liar Thomas and Emily Bridges who rob females of a their awards.
Sadly people are still saying it’s all right to support cheats and liars to enable them to take female places and awards.
One of the reasons for what you quote above is exactly because males keep lying and cheating, which makes people like the strong, tall, muscular, deep-voiced females beloved of some posters (I’ve got a good memory) come under unwanted scrutiny.
Support the TW cheats and liars by not condemning them, and you are condoning the treatment of females that you mention above.

That's the system you support
No. Please don’t tell me what I support.

I support women’s sports being kept for female participants. As people want to cheat then tears need to be applied, in the same way as because people take performance enhancing drugs there need to be tests to determine whether they have taken drugs. The sex of unborn babies can be determined by a blood test, so I see no reason why a non-invasive test can’t be used on athletes.

The sex of unborn babies can be determined by a blood test, so I see no reason why a non-invasive test can’t be used on athletes.
Doodledog it can, a simple cheek swab from your mouth enables DNA to establish your sex. Is that really "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment"? How about all sportspeople are swabbed at say, 12 years of age or later if that's when they start competing. One test, once in their lives that gives them a 'sex passport' for entry to any sport.

It's worth noting that Caster Semenya, who Glorianny has referenced in the past is a biological male who went through a male puberty, courtesy of the functioning internal testes that produce testosterone to which Caster is sensitive. Caster has a DSD 5αR2D which only affects males.

I should add that if Caster Semenya truly believed they were female, then of course it's momentous for Caster to find out they are male. Fortunately Caster is married to a beautiful woman who has given birth to two children, so at least has a happy family life.

That’s rather a different narrative from the one that suggests that CS was raised as a girl, lives as a woman and is being denied the chance to be herself, isn’t it? Oh, and if anyone questions anything about it they must be racist.

I note that we still haven’t been told who is being accused of ‘peddling hatred’. It would be good to know if that was another personal attack or just a vague and generalised comment.

Doodledog

That’s rather a different narrative from the one that suggests that CS was raised as a girl, lives as a woman and is being denied the chance to be herself, isn’t it? Oh, and if anyone questions anything about it they must be racist.

I note that we still haven’t been told who is being accused of ‘peddling hatred’. It would be good to know if that was another personal attack or just a vague and generalised comment.

'Peddling hatred' is a bit of a get-out accusation.

It's like the term "Nazi" that's thrown around liberally... or being called an extremist because you are forceful or 'energetic' in your argument.

If anyone on here was really peddling hatred - the nasty stuff that surfaces sometimes on forums like reddit, etc - or even Facebook, where some are calling for violence - or glorifying that it has actually happened to a minority group - or any group... I am sure that GNHQ would be on it and delete it PDQ.

Well sorry if it isn't hatred which causes people to misgender someone what is it? Fear perhaps.

Caster Semenya brought her case to the European court as a woman and she was judged as a woman. Her case is a landmark decision for intersex people. You can read about it here opiniojuris.org/2023/08/04/the-european-court-of-human-rights-in-the-caster-semenya-case-opening-a-new-door-for-protecting-the-rights-of-persons-with-variations-of-sex-characteristics-and-human-rights-in-sports/#:~:text=The%20ECtHR%20upheld%20several%20of,right%20to%20private%20life%20(Art.

Of course it seems that like transmen she is the wrong sort of woman for posters on these threads. The restrictions on who is permitted to be a woman become more and more extensive. That always happens with discrimination.
Many same sex couples have children and happy family lives.

We know the details of CS we have known for years.
We know that ruling there have been numerous rulings over the years.

The reason I dont support the concept of gender is that I dont support stereotypes. If you were telling me off for not adhering to racist stereotypes it would have the same impact. I.e none.

What have same sex couples got to do with it, or is this another passive aggressive insinuation?

It is ad hominem personal attacks like these that cause so much unpleasantness on these threads, and the usual MO is to goad people into snapping at the sheer injustice of your comments and then claim to be bullied and wallow in your 'victimhood'. You do realise that not naming the objects of your slurs does not mean that you are not making personal remarks and therefore breaking the GN rules? An insinuated comment is as personal as if you are more assertive and say what you mean.

I am not, (and as far as I can see no regular poster on these threads is) racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic, and your attempts to suggest that questioning the wisdom of allowing men into women's spaces, mangling the language so we don't know if we are talking about women or transwomen, encouraging children to damage their minds and bodies and closing down women's sport indicates otherwise do not advance your cause at all. I am not speaking from a point of view of fear, hatred or any of the things you pretend. I have explained over and over what I question and why I question it, and am safe in the knowledge that the only phobia I have is of spiders. I have no objection to transpeople, and believe that because as far as we know we have one life, we should live it in the way that makes us happy. My objections, such as they are, are about how in many cases transpeople's right to live as they wish tramples over women's rights to live in safety and with the privacy and dignity that we have fought for for years.

Thank you Rosie51 for your information on CS and about the ease of determining sex with a simple mouth swab.
What a disappointment for the person on here who has been using CS as proof. Someone who is really guilty of peddling hatred, if any poster on GN actually is.
Re same sex couples?
Same sex couples are two people who want relationships with people of the same sex.
Male with male. Female with female.
TW with TW or TM with TM can be same sex couples in the same way. Anything else is heterosexual.
If a couple are happy with whichever combination they are living in, no issue.
If one half is demanding to be accepted as the opposite sex as in the case of TW claiming they are lesbian and saying that lesbians who do not accept them as such are transphobic that is wrong.
Although maybe you don’t think so Glorianny?

One of the reasons for my concerns about the gender issue is the homophobia intrinsic in ignoring the reality of sex.

Posting that hatred is being peddled on this thread is a vague and generalised attack on anyone who disagrees with you Glorianny and is another example of the weakness of your argument.