disrespectful Rishi Sunak

With George Osborne as Chairman I don't think so; he has only been in post for two years and has no background in arts at all.

In any case it’s for the British Museum to decide

It’s not. The Sculptures belong to the government, and are only in the trusteeship of the British Museum, and the British Museum Act (1963) prohibits them from being fully returned. Sunak is on record as saying he will not even consider changing that legislation.

Siope

*In any case it’s for the British Museum to decide*

It’s not. The Sculptures belong to the government, and are only in the trusteeship of the British Museum, and the British Museum Act (1963) prohibits them from being fully returned. Sunak is on record as saying he will not even consider changing that legislation.

Well, not much difference if it’s the British Museum Act (1963)that prohibits them from being fully returned.

Where will it all end? Will museums round the world have to give up Egyptian artefacts? Or Roman? Taken to the logical end every museum would only have artifacts from its own country displayed in them.
The British Museum should hang onto them.

So what is your accreditation that allows you to say Elgin removed the Acropolis sculptures legitimately, eazybee? There are scholars arguing on both sides.

The evidence is an English translation of an Italian translation of a Turkish document. Turkey at the time being an occupying force. This is very shaky ground you are relying on.

To be honest, this is all of little relevance to the spat Subak set off but it does sound as if, yet again, we have someone offering an unsubstantiated opinion which they then expect others to accept as a truth.

Siope

*In any case it’s for the British Museum to decide*

It’s not. The Sculptures belong to the government, and are only in the trusteeship of the British Museum, and the British Museum Act (1963) prohibits them from being fully returned. Sunak is on record as saying he will not even consider changing that legislation.

Starmer also said he wouldn't not change the law but this too is an irrelevance, a distraction, as what they are suggesting are future loans. The sort that happen across the world, all the time between museums Siope.

A Greek newspaper reported that Starmer met with the Greek prime minister on Monday. Obviously preparing in advance…. I don’t understand why Oliver Dowden wasn’t acceptable as deputy prime minister to stand in for Sunak whereas Starmer was. A lot of gesturing again?
There are at least two wars going on plus economic turmoil so Sunak was right to prioritise his time and energy.

It is one of the "rules" of diplomacy that says equal meets equal ronib. The "downgrading" is a known snub.

You may not agree but Sunak et al knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing - and they succeeded. Here we all are discussing a deliberate snub and some artifacts instead of the dire situation this goverment has dragged us in to.

I think Oliver Dowden has a higher status than the leader of the opposition. Dowden is in office and power.

ronib

A Greek newspaper reported that Starmer met with the Greek prime minister on Monday. Obviously preparing in advance…. I don’t understand why Oliver Dowden wasn’t acceptable as deputy prime minister to stand in for Sunak whereas Starmer was. A lot of gesturing again?
There are at least two wars going on plus economic turmoil so Sunak was right to prioritise his time and energy.

I fully agree with you ronib. Why did Starmer get his visit with the Greek P.M. first yet not prepared to change the law? Another case of sitting on the sanctimonious fence.
If countries had not realised the importance of these artefacts and removed them to safe places what would we have left of ancient artefacts? Look at what the Taleban did to the beautiful statues of Budha and all the artefacts that have disappeared out of Iraqi museums.
They are not just in England they are scattered throughout Europe are they sending their pieces back and is there any pressure on them to do so?

I totally agree with eezeebee. Those were the historical facts. The marbles were being ground down for concrete. Where was the respect and reverence for ancient objects then ? The Greeks have no respect for their historical objects, has anyone been to Knossos recently?

ronib

I think Oliver Dowden has a higher status than the leader of the opposition. Dowden is in office and power.

No you misunderstand diplomacy.

Starmer is meeting a lot of state leaders now, for obvious reasons, and they of course understand that he is likely to be the next U.K. prime minister, and are having preliminary discussions with him over all sorts if issues.

Sunak snubbed the Greeks and he knows it. The Greek press know it too and there are some very uncomplimentary headlines.

I quite agree Sunak did snub the greeks, I think Tories believe being tough is a vote winner and Sunak is desperately searching for approval. He really doesn't have the standing for PM, even if he has been to Eton

But there not ours to look after.

No - when it became clear the meeting was going to be used as an opportunity to 'row' over this issue - he was wise to remove himself from it. It would have nullified the meeting and wasted everyone's time.

DaisyAnneReturns

It is not a bash Sunak day ronib. It's a will Sunak stop thinking like an entitled childish Aristocrat and behave diplomatically Day. But obviously that wouldn't fit as a Daily Mail headline.

This has caused a (small) diplomatic flare-up. Not big and not clever at a time when the UK needs all the friends it can get.

What a ludicrous statement "thinking like an entitled childish Aristocrat". I can't imagine anything further from the truth.

Perhaps Sunak mother (while she was busy in her shop, not unlike Mrs Thatchers parents. ) sorry had to mention that !
- forget to mention to little Rushi, that if it doesn’t belong to you, you give it back !

How gutless! At least have the conversation. He is, after all, supposed to be the head statesman for the UK. Talk about burying your head in the sand ..and hoping the issue will just magically go away! Pathetic!

BlueBelle

As they said on the radio perhaps he’s trying to miss out the headlines “Rishi loses his marbles”

Of course we should give them back and lots of other stuff we think we have a right to

Ha, ha! Although he already has!

Wishy Washy Rishi can't do anything right!

Not even increases in the state pension and benefits, plus of course the increased winter fuel allowance and cost of living payments for those eligible?

No they shouldn't be returned. They were given to Lord Elgin in good faith and now belong to our country. If we start returning artifacts to their countries of origin, maybe other countries should start returning things of ours that they possess.

Both sides have a good case. Elgin did not steal them and the BM has looked after them better than they would have been left exposed to the elements and pillaging for lime. Some kind of loan deal might work if it could be guaranteed that loans would be returned. A permanent deaccessioning would require amending the BM Act: the return of e.g., the Benin bronzes, etc., is not a procedural precedent because the museums which held them were not constrained from deaccessioning by legislation .

I have read in the broadsheets that we bought the marbles. I notice that giving them back has sometimes been spoken about before. Why didnt James Callsghan, Tony Blair or Gordon Brown give them back and why it is only now the usual suspects descend on Rishi
Sunak? He will have taken advice before any decision was made. I hope i live long enough to think of every wrong we get once we Labour is in power. But then I have a life and little time left to bother.

Thin edge of the wedge! We have many artifacts from all over the world in our museums. There would be a tsunami of similar requests made from other countries. Would you like to see then all go?

spabbygirl

I quite agree Sunak did snub the greeks, I think Tories believe being tough is a vote winner and Sunak is desperately searching for approval. He really doesn't have the standing for PM, even if he has been to Eton

A detail maybe, but Sunak didn’t go to Eton. He was at Winchester.

Fairycakes

No they shouldn't be returned. They were given to Lord Elgin in good faith and now belong to our country. If we start returning artifacts to their countries of origin, maybe other countries should start returning things of ours that they possess.

Where is your proof - and the proof of your knowledge of this part of history, that this was a "good faith" transaction?

Out of interest - what do other countries have of our thst they should return?