disrespectful Rishi Sunak

The argument that we will look after them better is now rather outdated. It seems we haven't looked after them that well and they have been damaged/corroded while in our care because of a treatment applied to them.

There is a museum next to the Parthenon with gap waiting for the marbles which some believe is much better that the British Museum could produce.

Safekeeping is one thing, but 200 years is stretching things further than necessary, as is Sunak’s impolite refusal to have a conversation with the Prime Minister of the friendly country from which the marbles originated.

DaisyAnneReturns
Out of interest - what do other countries have of our thst they should return?

There are vast quantities of our antiquities in the USA. Take the sinking of the Titanic, for example. Priceless manuscripts, rare pieces of art, jewelry - all which sank with the ship, and which when retrieved was auctioned by the ton load in the USA.
This is just one example.

Yes never seen them anyway wasn’t on my to see list when visiting London lol but I do think they should give us the money back that we paid for them after all nothing in life is free is it lol

I tried to get a petition started and discovered two had already been started and scrapped through lack of interest of so they said.
Maybe someone with a better command of English could try to start another. Of course they should be returned!

We should return them.

Given that the Acropolis was used as a munition store Elgin saved the marbles from certain destruction. However, the Greeks now have a beautiful museum in which to display them as part of the story of the Acropolis and they should be there and some kind of deal arranged. The fear that everybody will ask for their artefacts, hitherto less regarded, is a serious point and, taken to extremes, mean that no museum in the world will be able to tell any other cultural story than their own. Is that what we should want?

Fairycakes

DaisyAnneReturns
Out of interest - what do other countries have of our thst they should return?

There are vast quantities of our antiquities in the USA. Take the sinking of the Titanic, for example. Priceless manuscripts, rare pieces of art, jewelry - all which sank with the ship, and which when retrieved was auctioned by the ton load in the USA.
This is just one example.

But there are laws about marine salvage which must have applied.

But we are talking about the return of antiquities to their country of origin. We are always being asked to return other countries ' artifacts, so how about other counties start returning ours? And what about our antiques that are constantly sold abroad, which our museums etc would like to have but can't afford? They should not be allowed to be taken overseas. It's part of our history. So if other countries want their artifacts back, that is fine with me, provided they start returning ours.
And as for salvage rights, is it much different to Lord Elgin's acquiring of the marbles? Just a thought 🤔

Delila

Safekeeping is one thing, but 200 years is stretching things further than necessary, as is Sunak’s impolite refusal to have a conversation with the Prime Minister of the friendly country from which the marbles originated.

It is Dehlia. I can't see anything wrong with the loans idea.

Sunak has just given one if the most hypocritical speeches I have heard, and there have been a few in recent years. King Charles's was well balanced and knowledgeable. Sunak, on the other hand simply sounded full of his own importance and as if he has never tried to use Ulez to divide the country.

The OP was about Sunak, Fairycakes.

DaisyAnneReturns ,
in that case
Sunak should have met with the Greek prime minister out of respect, whether or not he intended to return the marbles.

As I understand it, the meeting was supposed to be about migration and other important issues facing both countries m

Pressed Post accidentally! It was not intended, by the UK, to be about Marbles. The Greek PM had an agenda which was not disclosed when the meeting was arranged. Somewhat underhand. In any case the Marbles belong to British Museum.

Q :- Why are there pyramids in Egypt?
A :- Because they wouldn’t fit into the British Museum !

I think it’s likely that Sunak, in talks with another head of state, might take the opportunity to bring up topics of interest which aren’t on the formal agenda if they might benefit the UK? Nothing underhand about it, surely.

Elgin thought he was saving ancient treasures for posterity. he probably did. And paid with an early death. But time to move on. They presumably can do replicas for British museum. Return them. They will look better in Athens. It’s quite a dull display in London, out of context.

The Marbles - but for us - would have been looted and disposed of by Turks or Greeks back then, no question.

No problem returning them now, but we SHOULD charge for having looked after them so well. How about £100,000 a year?

Elgin wanted them for his own home

NotSpaghetti maybe for his garden?

Who knows!

DaisyAnneReturns

So what is your accreditation that allows you to say Elgin removed the Acropolis sculptures legitimately, eazybee? There are scholars arguing on both sides.

The evidence is an English translation of an Italian translation of a Turkish document. Turkey at the time being an occupying force. This is very shaky ground you are relying on.

To be honest, this is all of little relevance to the spat Subak set off but it does sound as if, yet again, we have someone offering an unsubstantiated opinion which they then expect others to accept as a truth.

The evidence, as described by DAR is very shaky. Elgin was not able to produce the original agreement with the Turks, and neither were the Turks.

The findings of the 1816 Select Committee have no standing in law and were highly disputed at the time. They are not the clincher that people think they are.

The Greeks have been asking for the return of the marbles since they won independence from the Ottoman Empire in the 1830s.

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility in this day and age for accurate replicas to be made of the marbles which could be displayed in the British Museum with an account of their full history. The originals should be returned.

In fact, serious negotiations for their return have been ongoing for a considerable period, which indicates to me that we are not adamant about hanging on to them.

I have been to see them a number of times. They are stunning works of art, classical Greek sculpture is a high point in ancient Greek culture.

King Charles wore a tie patterned with Greek flags at Cop28 today.

🤔

Fairycakes

*DaisyAnneReturns *,
in that case
Sunak should have met with the Greek prime minister out of respect, whether or not he intended to return the marbles.

Indeed. Although I not sure which post you are replying to.

Germanshepherdsmum

Pressed Post accidentally! It was not intended, by the UK, to be about Marbles. The Greek PM had an agenda which was not disclosed when the meeting was arranged. Somewhat underhand. In any case the Marbles belong to British Museum.

When was this agenda disclosed, Germanshepherdsmum?