Transgender women and an early state pension.

eddiecat78

It seems to me that a lot of transwomen must have a very rose-tinted idea of what it actually feels like to be female. If they knew what it is really like they would understand why women are anxious about sharing traditionally all-female spaces with men - even those that are wearing a dress. Our reluctance is a survival instinct resulting from many years of experiencing inappropriate behaviour from men - which most of us have had to suffer. Any transwomen who doesn't understand that and respect it hasn't got a clue what it "feels like to be a woman".

I think that you should read up or otherwise get to know trans women in order to better understand them. Most trans women are incredibly respectful of women because trans women face so much discrimination, not just as women but as trans women.

There are women out there who do not respect women, who believe our place is to be subservient to men. We should not emulate women like that in regards to trans women

They don't face discrimination as women VS because they're not women. It's awful that some are discriminated against because they're trans women but not being wanted in the places, events and situations that are discussed here, is not being discriminated against.

Yes eddie any trans woman who doesn't understand and I would add accept why women need the things that we list here "hasn't got a clue what it means to be a woman".

Sorry.
Great wriggle! VS I put it in the simplest English to make it easier for you to understand. If you can’t, then not to worry.

VS
The only discrimination here is at the expense of trans women
Obviously that’s only in your opinion VS, which fortunately, does not make it true.

Of course they do Smileless because many of them pass as women

The fact that everyone thinks they can tell when they can't is why butch lesbians and masculine appearing women are getting abused more as they are mistakenly believed to be trans.

The fact that everyone thinks they can tell when they can't ...... whose 'everyone' VS? I've certainly never claimed that I can always tell.

Mollygo

Sorry.
Great wriggle! VS I put it in the simplest English to make it easier for you to understand. If you can’t, then not to worry.

VS
The only discrimination here is at the expense of trans women
Obviously that’s only in your opinion VS, which fortunately, does not make it true.

No

Please see:

Gender recognition act 2004

Equality act 2010

Government guidance, The recruitment and retention of transgender staff

Btw in the third one of these you will see that continually and deliberately misgendering someone in the work place is considered harassment and bullying

Your constant rhetoric is getting really boring now VS, you don't even attempt to see the other side of the discussion.
Your Males identifying as women are not women and never ever will be, you just need to accept that fact ! and it is a fact...not opinion or discrimination, a fact.

Bridie22

Your constant rhetoric is getting really boring now VS, you don't even attempt to see the other side of the discussion.
Your Males identifying as women are not women and never ever will be, you just need to accept that fact ! and it is a fact...not opinion or discrimination, a fact.

I tend to answer comments put to me

Just as I will answer this one and say:

Trans women are women, sometimes legally and that is a fact

eddiecat78

It seems to me that a lot of transwomen must have a very rose-tinted idea of what it actually feels like to be female. If they knew what it is really like they would understand why women are anxious about sharing traditionally all-female spaces with men - even those that are wearing a dress. Our reluctance is a survival instinct resulting from many years of experiencing inappropriate behaviour from men - which most of us have had to suffer. Any transwomen who doesn't understand that and respect it hasn't got a clue what it "feels like to be a woman".

Excellent post, eddiecat.

And I like your meme too, GrannyGravy - very true.

It was a terrible meme, discrimination is discrimination

And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

So the meme is oppressive

Trans women are women, sometimes legally and that is a fact

How are you defining 'women' here? And what about the other times when they are not legally women (whatever that now means)? What are they then?

You can say legally, I don't care if the pope says its true...its a lie, they are Males identifying as females.Fact you cannot change your sex, only your gender.

VS
^Most trans women are incredibly respectful of women.
Evidence?
Although actually I believe that could be true. Sadly, the only evidence we ever see about TW’s attitude to females is definitely not respectful, or are you claiming that’s not true VS?

Evidenced (in case you ask), in the media, prison reports, female changing rooms, female toilets, female swim sessions, female mental health wards etc.

VS continues
There are women out there who do not respect women, who believe our place is to be subservient to men.

Obviously you’re including there, those TW who want females to be subservient to men. and I’m not disagreeing with that.

*But that’s the same old, same old excuse used to justify the actions and attitude of some TW, that some women do not respect women. (Many TRA are also women who attack females as you well know.)
I’m not saying it isn’t true, but
that is absolutely no excuse for TW and TRA attacks on females and disrespectful behaviour towards females, don’t you agree?

Yes very good meme GrannyGravy. I don't find it discriminatory or oppressive and would be interested to know why you do VS.

VioletSky

It was a terrible meme, discrimination is discrimination

And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

So the meme is oppressive

Totally agree and women are being discriminated against day in and day out.

Have you not read/heard about women in sports being beaten by men identifying as women.

These imposters are on the whole very far down the league tables of male sports, but win in the women’s. Totally wrong and unfair on every level…

Bridie22

You can say legally, I don't care if the pope says its true...its a lie, they are Males identifying as females.Fact you cannot change your sex, only your gender.

That's your opinion

Science has hypothesis about why gender dysphoria is happening

21 differences in 17 genes were identified in trans people and the possibility that at some point in development fetal brains are washed with the incorrect hormones

Research in biology is ongoing, we do not know everything yet, potentially we never will.

And science does not care about opinions, not even the personal opinions of scientists

Incorrect information VS... as of the present day, Males identifying as females are men.

But not all trans people have GD VS. An extremely small percentage are diagnosed; 0.005 - 0.014 % and what we do know is that men identifying as women are men, and women identifying as men are women.

Regardless of the reason(s) why, that will never change.

VioletSky

It was a terrible meme, discrimination is discrimination

And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

So the meme is oppressive

In your opinion VS, but you refuse to clearly condemn the actions of those TW who discriminate against females

You say
And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

I’m glad you see the discrimination against JKR as oppression, considering how many TRA and TW say she deserves the attacks.

Bridie22

Incorrect information VS... as of the present day, Males identifying as females are men.

Well no because people who have a GRC are legally that gender except for a few cases like women's safe spaces

But apart from safe spaces, it is illegal to discriminate against trans people or in any way treat them less favourably than other people under the equality act

This includes bullying and harassment. If a trans woman were here and were deliberately misgendered they would legally have the right to report that as harassment

We are not talking gender which is a social construct, we are talking sex.

Well yes VS because as a GRC recognises a change of gender, not a change of sex.

Transgender people may conform to cultural gender norms and they may not

Either way, most trans people would dearly love to alter their sex and many do so through the use of hormone therapy and surgery

If you were to do away with gender norms completely, and trans people still existed, what would you say then?

No VS they don't change their sex. Hormone therapy and surgery enables them to adopt the physical characteristics of a man or a woman.

In answer to your question I would say what I say now, that trans women are men, and trans men are women.

Nobody alters their sex. it is not possible. To pretend otherwise is not very kind.