Dwp release results of pip claims study

PIP is not a benefit to assess if a person is “fit for work”. Working and non working people claim PIP, it’s all about how your disability or condition affects your day to day living.

Gillycats

I’m assuming you’ve reported these people committing benefit fraud??

I worked within this area for 14 years, (2009-2022), I can assure you it’s very much the minority who “fiddle” their benefits or are claiming the sickness element fraudulently.

The DWP very much err on the side of assuming someone IS fit for work now, rather than the other way round. That’s why there are now so many tribunal appeals, which can take up to a year to be heard. People have actually died in the meantime.

The country isn’t rife with benefit fraud, the majority of people claiming benefits aren’t “living”, they’re (just about) surviving!

For almost 5 years I undertook outreach work, I saw people in their own homes, I would not want to live like they did. No nails, eyelashes, contract phone, or 70” TVs for these folks, just worry about their electric running out and how they’d buy their kids next school uniform!

MissAdventure

There are almost zero recorded losses to the taxpayer due to fraud in the disability benefit benefits system, new statistics from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) show.

Personal independence payment (PIP) fraud stood at 0% in the financial year ending 2024. Meanwhile, disability living allowance (DLA) fraud was just 0.1%, which was rounded to £0m.

It comes as the government continues its drive to tighten disability benefits, eradicate “sick-note culture” and crack down on fraud within the welfare system more widely.

Benefit reforms ‘entirely in the wrong direction’ to help disabled people into work, DWP warned
DWP sparks outcry with plan to hire 2,500 ‘agents’ to investigate universal credit claimants
Mikey Erhardt, campaigner at Disability Rights UK said: “New data shows what we, as disabled people, have known for years – PIP fraud is a non-issue. PIP fraud is now the lowest on record – despite the government placing fraud front and centre of their latest public announcements.”

PIP overpayments stood at 0.4%, which is the equivalent of £90m lost in a year. That is compared to 1.1% (£200m) in the financial year ending 2023, a significant decrease.

The majority of overpayments happened because of errors where the claimant did not report a change in their needs. Only one in 100 PIP claimants were overpaid

One of the reasons for PIP fraud decreasing is DEP have set up a new fraud team (just after lockdown ended), working alongside their other compliance and fraud teams, who are sent any potentially fraudulent claims at the application stage from PIP so some are “weeded” out at that stage.

Dickens AA and PIP assessors are not meant to take what you suffer from into account when making decisions. The decision is meant to be based only on the extent of your disability, obviously the cause will hover in the background, but that is all.

In theory you could have nothing wrong with you beyond general frailty, and I did have clients like that, but if you are in danger of falling and could not get up without help, or it might be be fatal, if you need help with dressing and undressing and cannot bath/shower unaided, then you should qualify for AA, even though you have no identified health problem.

M0nica

Dickens AA and PIP assessors are not meant to take what you suffer from into account when making decisions. The decision is meant to be based only on the extent of your disability, obviously the cause will hover in the background, but that is all.

In theory you could have nothing wrong with you beyond general frailty, and I did have clients like that, but if you are in danger of falling and could not get up without help, or it might be be fatal, if you need help with dressing and undressing and cannot bath/shower unaided, then you should qualify for AA, even though you have no identified health problem.

Thanks, MOnica - that's interesting, and explains a lot.

Personally the sort of person who beats about getting undeserved benefits is trying to big themselves up to try and feel better about themselves, if they were deliberate criminals they'd keep their mouths shut. Very few criminals can jump through all the myriad hoops if a pip claim as they need to provide hard evidence to back up what they say. The low levels of fraud detected suggests to me that many who don't know how to use the system are not getting awards they should be entitled to. The amount of literacy and level of understanding of legal judgements you needs to claim successfully is beyond belief if you've not tried it.

Is DWP fit for purpose? It's beginning to seem like another Home Office.

My lovely hard working very responsible DDiL has a skeletal problem (long name I cant remember) since childhood. Works full time, looks after her two children & cannot give up work as my DS does not earn enough for her to do so! Twice she has been turned down for PIP simply because she copes thanks to a massive amount of medications that in themselves cause problems! If granted PIP would allow her to work part time with less daily stress, pain & meds. Because she copes & tries to hide how she feels she is left to get on with it while a friend of mine’s son brags about how he gets every benefit he can! Nothing wrong with him just lazy but who is going to tell tales? Life is very unfair!

She needs to reapply.
Its quite normal to be turned down at first, and a lot of people end up going to a tribunal.

My daughter had her PIP stopped after a paper-based assessment. With the help of CAB she appealed and won after appearing remotely in front of a tribunal. Not only was her PIP backdated her daily living part was increased to the higher level so she now receives more than before the assessment.
You might pass her in the street and think there is nothing wrong but looks can be very deceptive.

I hope your username isn’t indicative of where you live. If it is, that’s quite a small place and you can be easily identified from the information you have given. I would advise you to ask to change it.

MissAdventure

Perhaps "some people" would like to read it.
Straight from the horse's mouth.

PIP fraud 0%, from the DWP's own figures .... yet Mel Stride who lied to the public on tv recently about 'the disabled getting thousands of pounds a month' seems to think spending millions on reforming it, is a good idea?

If I did get 'thousands of pounds every month, then I'd be able to repair my toilet instead of having to use the garden because I can't get upstairs; I'd be able too put the heating on that hasn't been used for the past 2 winters; I could pay for my house to be cleaned, my bare plaster walls could be decorated; the leaking gutter that is causing my brickwork to go black could be sorted; my grass wouldn't be a foot long; my outside light would work because it needs a new bulb, and I'd be able to replace my oven that hasn't worked since October 2022! But sadly we don't get anywhere near that amount. In fact

They appear to think that giving someone an aid or adaptation is going to make folk not need money to live on, yet they can only assist us, nit take the disability away!

They are proposing giving us vouchers, but have yet to state what these vouchers are for and what you can buy with them?

Getting the benefit is extremely difficult, people are usually denied it, twice, but will get a fair hearing at a Tribunal, where 70% of the DWP's decisions are overturned. That says it all, but I believe that they are going to be doing away with the Tribunal service - the DWP will have more blood on it's hands.

Ilovecheese

What about the extensive medical knowledge as to which activities people with certain conditions are able to do.

It's certainly NOT extensive in the trained 'Health Professionals' who currently assess for the benefit, and certainly the new 'Work Coaches' won't have any!

Bizarrely that IS a job that I could potentially do, in the afternoons over the phone, lol, After taking 28 tablets a night plus a Fentanyl patch, I'm neither use nor ornament in the mornings. Trained nurse, extensive patient experience after 24 surgeries, about 20 different health conditions and experience of disability, BUT my conscience just wouldn't allow it, and my take home pay would be rubbish as I wouldn't get the bonuses for denying it ...!

If it’s a job you could do, you should apply for it.

Please tell me that you don’t use your garden as a lavatory.

MadeInYorkshire, would you not be eligible for a disabled facilities grant to adapt some of your home? Are you in touch with social services occupational health?

What is PIP anyway? They keep changing the names of the benefits and it confuses me. My mother claimed a benefit, I think it was originally called Personal Independence Allowance, but the name changed. She got it even though she was on a pension because she needed help to live independently. When she went into a care home, it went up because she then needed care at night. I can’t remember the new name. It wasn’t means tested, I remember that.

She had a Blue Badge too.

PIP is DLA for adults neither is means tested
attendance allowance is for people over 70 iirc and might be like personal independence allowance but also isn't means tested

Thank you JJ.
I do find it all confusing.

don't we all? sorting out my daughter's benefits puts so much stress on me as it is so difficult to navigate.

Good luck with that.
I’m glad I don’t have to navigate the system, but who knows in the future.

Germanshepherdsmum

If it’s a job you could do, you should apply for it.

Please tell me that you don’t use your garden as a lavatory.

Yes I have had to when it is flooding and blocked!

*JaneJudge - yes I am eligible for a fully funded DFG for an adapted wet room and a stairlift. However, because of my medical conditions, I just cannot wait for a stairlift to chug me up to the bathroom, particularly in the night time, as that is when it is worse - after my 29 tablets, I am rather discombobulated and just cannot get there quickly enough sometimes anyway. The thought of piddling on a stairlift mechanism isn't filling me with pleasure, and who is going to clean it every day, I can't? It'd be stinking! My real NEED is for a fully functioning downstairs loo. I bought this house because it did have one, but it is a macerator and it needs a completely new unit at almost £700, that is Monopoly money to me! My daughter, 2, husband and 2 small DGD's moved in with me and we were going to borrow some money to make this pretty spacious 3 bed semi work for us all. I live in the conservatory, we wanted to put a proper roof on it, solar panels, & create a downstairs bathroom for me (we needed 2 anyway) from the utility room, have a new kitchen, with a door out to the garden so that everyone didn't need to disturb me to get outside and give me some privacy., Then my other daughter had to move back in as her MH took a massive downturn - so then there were 6! Unfortunately NOBODY would lend on the house because it is an ex-council house, not even equity release! Ridiculous as there's nothing really wrong with it other than it needs some updating etc. So daughter 2 and family move out, leaving me & daughter 1 who then committed suicide in November 2022 leaving me rattling around in a house too big, unable to repair it. Can't sell it as it wouldn't give me enough money to buy again, so I am stuck!

So the LA came and I asked them instead of a stairlift etc could I have my utility room converted and a proper downstairs loo, I'm certain that once you've added £5k for the stairlift, it'd be cheaper). The answer was NO because 'you already have a downstairs loo and it's yours to maintain'. I know that, but I don't have the money! I've tried charities and all sorts so far to no avail.

So, I have enlisted the help of my local town councillor who I believe has taken it to the Director of Adult Social Care, and someone was supposed to come and do a new Care Act Assessment (on time remarkably as the last one was 18 months overdue). That meeting has so far been cancelled 3 times, but she is apparently coming out on Monday, so we'll see, as using plastic bags and the garden really is not ideal, especially in the depths of winter!! Fortunately nobody can see me ...

maddyone

What is PIP anyway? They keep changing the names of the benefits and it confuses me. My mother claimed a benefit, I think it was originally called Personal Independence Allowance, but the name changed. She got it even though she was on a pension because she needed help to live independently. When she went into a care home, it went up because she then needed care at night. I can’t remember the new name. It wasn’t means tested, I remember that.

In theory if she was claiming PIP before she was pension age it should still be PIP, but if you claim after pension age it is Attendance Allowance which doesn't include a mobility component as the elderly are expected not to be able to walk anyway! It's slightly more more than PIP if I remember right from my mum's claim?

DLA is still around as I am on it; been on it many years now and am hoping that they won't transfer me to PIP and UC before I reach pension age, but they might, it's a complete hassle when they do and they don't just swap it and give you the money, you have to wait until the claim goes through, in the meantime going into debt to pay your bills - you do get it back, but that isn't the point! I get the same money as PIP, it's not any more. They are called 'legacy benefits'.

JaneJudge

don't we all? sorting out my daughter's benefits puts so much stress on me as it is so difficult to navigate.

Deliberately so in the hope that you give in and walk away!

Personal independence payment is what PIP stands for.
I get it, because I am under pension age.