Back to a difficult position

She is vulnerable person, so it's best to include that word in correspondence as well as safeguarding.

Evn if she stays within the block, there is the potential for trips, falls, etc.

We're in the 4th floor. There's a lift or the concrete stairs. No cameras. Will just have to hope for the best. Maybe it'll be a shock for her to be home without the home staff doing everything for her and providing substantial meals.

My phone always changes on to in!

It’s frustrating when you’re trying to help, but it’s never enough, and now it’s back to square one. Maybe try to push harder for the SW contact info or see if other neighbors can also reach out.

Has the POA been activated? If so, I’m surprised the authorities are not listening to the holders of the POA.

I think you’ll need to inform anyone who asks that you are not her carer/supporter and if she begins to act antisocially or in a bizarre fashion, then act on it as you would with a stranger eg if you saw someone elderly but unknown to you wandering around in her nightie, you’d probably call the police for a welfare check.

I hope either she ends up not coming home or that she is soon back where she needs to be rather than being at home.

We had one such neighbour, he is bi- polar.
We were always aware if he hadn’t taken his medication but nothing serious until one night last year. He was knocking on doors very disturbed and aggressive.
We phoned social services who advised phoning the police who informed us that our call might take a while for police to attend.
By this time our poor neighbour was in an extremely agitated state.
Then another neighbour called the emergency gas leak saying he could smell gas ( of course there wasn’t)
Long story short, the gas people called the police who attended within minutes.
Poor neighbour was sectioned.

For the person to have requested to go home, they must have been deemed to have capacity. But it seems she doesn't?

Sadly. I am something of an expert in this field, having both worked in this area and had very elderly parents.

Perhaps her capacity was better in the care home where she would have regular hydration, foods, and a routine?

Aveline What a horrible situation you are in. I am so sorry you are having all this anxiety, especially having had several years of looking after your own relatives.

I think you should make a note of any disruption that this lady causes you and perhaps Citizens Advice can help you with regard to who you should contact to remedy this stressful situation.

MissAdventure

Perhaps her capacity was better in the care home where she would have regular hydration, foods, and a routine?

Interesting thing capacity. Its not static.

I didn't think she had capacity judging by the things she was saying to me when I saw her in the care home. (I volunteer there). However, the act says that the least restrictive care is required. Maybe she's being sent home to fail?

Some people may have capacity in certain things, but lack of it in others.
A urine infection, medication, lack of vitamins, all kinds things can affect the ability to be capable.

Iy should always be the very least restrictive measures that are taken, though.

Interesting, but not much help for you.
I think I would phone social services, explain the situation and explain that I would be phoning the police as soon as she starts wandering, in order to protect her from falling down those stairs.

Ask who to email to that effect.

Put the ball firmly back in their court.

Will do.

I think as long asocial services and other agencies think you and your neighbours are 'coping' and the lady in question isn't doing anything harmful to herself or others, they will just leave you to get on with it.

You might, with your neighbours, have to become a real thorn in their side and complain loud and clear - and regularly, until they are forced to take control. Not only for your sake, but hers as well.

Clearly the poor woman needs 24 hour supervision. And I doubt she's going to improve.

I feel for you. It's a constant drain emotionally.

My mother, who also lived in a block of flats, was in a similar position. But because she was a retired SRN and had helped out in a 'situation' once - social services just left her to get on with it when a crisis arose.

In the end, she called the patient's doctor and told him that she would not be available in a crisis (she was 81!) and that she believed he was a danger to himself, and that he was in great distress. Things moved after that, and he was taken into care eventually- probably against his will I'm sure, but what the heck. The neighbours were all middle-age / elderly and their lives were turned upside down every night when this poor chap kicked off (schizophrenia - and he didn't take his medication regularly).

... what a mess is social care.

I had a neighbour years ago who had dementia, and it got the point where I was making her a dinner and getting her ready for bed every night, and sorting out paperwork on her behalf.

She kept her flat absolutely immaculate, always, but progressed to suspecting people were taking her money.

I then realised what a position I'd put myself in and bowed out before things got worse.

If s services can rely on the goodwill of neighbours, friends, or anyone,really, they will drag their feet about dealing with things.

MissAdventure

I had a neighbour years ago who had dementia, and it got the point where I was making her a dinner and getting her ready for bed every night, and sorting out paperwork on her behalf.

She kept her flat absolutely immaculate, always, but progressed to suspecting people were taking her money.

I then realised what a position I'd put myself in and bowed out before things got worse.

If s services can rely on the goodwill of neighbours, friends, or anyone,really, they will drag their feet about dealing with things.

I had a neighbour years ago who had dementia, and it got the point where I was making her a dinner and getting her ready for bed every night, and sorting out paperwork on her behalf.

Good grief!

If s services can rely on the goodwill of neighbours, friends, or anyone, really, they will drag their feet about dealing with things.

Yes, literally, "care in the community" - by the community was the bit they forgot to tell us.

If you are lucky - and it is in some areas down to luck - carers will be regular and efficient, a neighbour down the road had carers for her very poorly disabled husband and they were brilliant. She also had a little 'respite' now and then (I offered to sit with her husband occasionally when she wanted to pop out or go for a walk or coffee), but she really had to fight to get the extra help.

Things have to improve, it can't get any worse, surely? I think Starmer, if he becomes PM is going to have an extremely difficult job with the whole NHS and care system, there are no quick fixes. But if the Tories get back in again, I believe there will be even more cuts, because, when they cut, it's always those with the least and bearing the greatest burden who bear the brunt.

I hope Aveline can with her neighbours find some solution, and soon.

My brother in law started bringing an old chap home from the pub on Sunday. My sister in law ended up feeding him for years, social workers got in touch with her as they thought she could be his carer!!

MissAdventure

Perhaps she will settle a bit with the routine of carers coming in.

Her meds will be administered, and she will hopefully then be awake during the day, and made comfortable with her teatime then bedtime carers.

I’m guessing that you don’t have much experience of plain bloody awkward old people who refuse even to let carers in the door - just send away the badly needed ones you’ve arranged for them! Dh’s old aunt was a prime example.

Aveline, it must be very hard in the circumstances, but refusing to engage at all will be the only way. Sometimes, sadly, it takes some sort of crisis for anything to change.

Aveline

A couple of months ago I mentioned on here how difficult my neighbour had become. She's 93 and always a bit odd. She's also deaf now. There was a lot of emotional blackmail to try to get us to do things for her. Anyway. The couple who have POA for her managed to get her into a lovely care home. It is really nice. However, she hated it and was unpleasant to other residents and staff.
Just heard today that she's coming back on Thursday. SW is going to 'try to arrange' carers! Even if this miracle does come about they'll be daytime only and we'll be back to being woken up three times a night by her opening and shutting her front door.

I just don't know what will happen. Other neighbours are concerned. I've asked for the SWs contact info but no luck. I'm so fed up. We looked after my Granny, mum and MiL. I really don't want to be landed with this difficult neighbour who I didn't ever have much to do with.
Sorry. Just offloading.

The people who are responsible for this lady are the ones with the Power of Attorney. Your problem is with them not the old lady. If these people are not willing to abide by the rules of the POA then they should be reported. This old lady does not know what on earth is going on.

BigMamma I think I read that they took the PoA on under duress.

I wonder if they can give it up?I've not heard of this but presumably it would go to a public guardian?

I wonder what will happen when this person sadly passes away.

Perhaps some realtives will miraculously appear.

Aveline

I don't have a key to her flat but DH is chairman of the residents association and can access a spare from the safe in the committee room (we're very posh here!) so we can be involved that way. There's a resident care taker but he won't have anything to do with her other than bringing up her milk and taking away any rubbish.

I assume that all of you are concerned about her? Could everyone add in to the log?
Make sure that you get info from SW about where to send the log, who to contact when concerned
Also, they might not be able to help immediately, but I have found that letting your local PCSO know what is gong on can be helpful If your DH could approach them, say 'we know you can't do anything, but we'd like you to be aware' can be useful. Then, if for her welfare, you have to call the police (not sure how likely that is, but it happens) they can't say 'this is the first time'.
I hope you have found this discussion helpful.

The whole scenario is absolutely dreadful - not just for Aveline with her predicament, but potentially for all of us as 'dragooned' carers, or needing care ourselves.

The stark reality is that care-systems, whichever type, have to be thoughtfully planned, meticulously set-up by those who know what they are about, and properly funded.

When the old care homes and asylums were closed there should have been a parallel expansion of 'care' systems and services. It's an unfinished revolution according to "National Elf Service" website.

People - mostly the elderly I suspect - are stuck in hospital beds because the care they need is not available back in the 'community'. Part of the cause of ambulances stuck outside hospitals waiting for hours to discharge their cargo. About a year ago now, I spent a whole night in an ambulance waiting in a queue outside the Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

It's an unholy mess. But immigration is the hot topic of the day! Puzzling, because we are far more likely to be personally impacted by the failing health, care, and social-care situation.

It is dreadful. And often of course, the person who needs care doesn't really see it themselves.
My parents were very active members of their community all of their lives, volunteers and good neighbours, always helping others. It was awful when I had to point out that they were drifting into becoming dependant on their neighbours to an unreasonable degree - they really hadn't seen it. Mercifully, one of them was still able to work with me to sort out care properly (and the other went along with it!)
And I am of the opinion that the closing down of the old care homes and asylums was about selling them off - not about actually caring for people. I mean no disrespect to all of the people on here who have done their best as carers - this was a decision taken at a high level, with little regard to the fok actually doing the work.
Sorry aveline - not helping you!

The old lady herself is totally self absorbed and very selfish. It is her who has insisted on going home. The poor couple with POA have been landed with her and have really done as well as possible. I reckon they are as fed up as we are that the SW has said she can come home.
I'm hoping that suddenly being on her own with no kind staff looking after her every need and providing meals etc might give her pause for thought.