Back to a difficult position

Any communication with Social Services should include that this is a "safeguarding issue". I gather this is a phrase that triggers action.

Good point

This is totally unacceptable!!! I imagine this lady has dementia. She is absolutely not your responsibility, yes keep a record , dates , times etc of all that happens . I know it will be hard for you but you must pester SS again and again and again!!! Clearly she is not fit to ' live ' alone. The people who have POA are what is says on the tin! They have the power to make decisions on her behalf and should exercise that power. Are you able to contact them and request they take action ?

can't the people with POA arrange for home carers ?

NotSpaghetti

BigMamma I think I read that they took the PoA on under duress.

I wonder if they can give it up?I've not heard of this but presumably it would go to a public guardian?

Yes, you can sign a deed of revocation, my uncle did for my Mothers estate.

Nannarose

It is dreadful. And often of course, the person who needs care doesn't really see it themselves.
My parents were very active members of their community all of their lives, volunteers and good neighbours, always helping others. It was awful when I had to point out that they were drifting into becoming dependant on their neighbours to an unreasonable degree - they really hadn't seen it. Mercifully, one of them was still able to work with me to sort out care properly (and the other went along with it!)
And I am of the opinion that the closing down of the old care homes and asylums was about selling them off - not about actually caring for people. I mean no disrespect to all of the people on here who have done their best as carers - this was a decision taken at a high level, with little regard to the fok actually doing the work.
Sorry aveline - not helping you!

And I am of the opinion that the closing down of the old care homes and asylums was about selling them off - not about actually caring for people.

I think it was seen as the cheaper option by those who manage the money and sold to the wider public and health services based on the premise that people are better off being cared for in their own homes, with family (if they have family), in familiar surroundings, which gives them a degree of autonomy and independence... and who, in principle, would argue with that?

However, in my opinion, the move was all part of the gradual destruction and privatisation of public services - the small state ideology of free-market liberalism.

If you are fairly wealthy, you can afford to buy all the care you need - you can even have live-in carers - but for the majority it means being at the mercy of carers who are hired cheaply, undervalued, in insufficient numbers, and who are expected to manage case-loads beyond their capacity.

Aveline's lady needs 24-hour care, not carers popping in twice a day (or whatever) for 15-minute sessions.

hoomee29

Any communication with Social Services should include that this is a "safeguarding issue". I gather this is a phrase that triggers action.

Interesting!

I think Aveline you will have to keep your foot firmly wedged in the door of the social services.

It's likely that whilst in the controlled environment of the care home, taking medication, consistent diet, support etc the woman in question improved mentally and was considered to have mental capacity and could decide she wanted to go home. In this situation she cannot be held against her will. If she deteriorates then she may be deemed to not have the mental capacity to make her own decisions and any PoA can be invoked, or the woman can be sectioned. As someone stated, mental capacity is not static and so can change.
If the woman is a nuisance/danger to others then involve social services and the police, ultimately it is those agencies that will sanction her freedom by sectioning her, although it is generally a last resort it's often the only way to force someone into care.
Likewise you cannot force someone to have home carers and if she refuses there is nothing that can be done, although some companies/carers are better than others at gaining trust. This lady sounds very confused, very scared and very vulnerable.
I am so sorry you are going through this, my mother was a nightmare to her neighbours, and family, and police (despite the help of all those agencies and family) until she was sectioned. Only then did she HAVE to accept the help she needed.

Germanshepherdsmum

I feel for you. Don’t engage with her, don’t open the door to her. She’s not your responsibility.

It is a difficult situation Aveline, and because of your kindly nature, you are taking on (or have done) some responsibility that, in truth, you really aren’t obliged to. I think it’s quite shocking that SW and others are expecting you, the neighbours, to take on responsibility for this person who is neither relation nor close friend.
I agree with GSM, whom I’ve quoted above.

I have never taken on any responsibility for her. It may be expected of me but I'm not going to. However, what do I do if she's at my door or I find her collapsed? I suspect that us neighbours will have a difficult time ahead and we'll just be forced with trying to contact SW, GP, police if necessary with all the time and hoohaa that will involve.
More to self - go into a care home and don't expect others to look after me.

Note to self

I think Aveline, that one of the problems is, that when that time comes, we don't always recognise it for ourselves.
And, sadly, the more you contact someone in authority, the more likley something will be done. My own suggestions are, unless obviously medical, SW & police because of centralised recording)
I'd add that you mention the people woth POA - is it just financial / legal or does it include health & welfare? I realise you my not know, but if health & welfare, are they able to do something? (maybe not if it hasn't actually been activiated)

The POA has been activated. I think they're just too nice to insist on her staying in the care home. She's furious and I don't think they can stand up to her. They're elderly themselves. Rotten situation all round.

That is useful, as someone like SW, police or GP may be able to talk to them about it.
My own experience is that when it gets as bad as you describe, the situation gets resolved one way or another before too long - but when you're in the middle of it, it feels as if it's going on forever.
I hope that you are in a financial & social position to be able to take breaks from this.

Do they hold a health PoA or only a financial one?

I think they have welfare and financial POA. I can only think that she has somehow bamboozled the SW into thinking she has capacity. Time will tell. She's supposed to be home tomorrow.

OldFrill

It's likely that whilst in the controlled environment of the care home, taking medication, consistent diet, support etc the woman in question improved mentally and was considered to have mental capacity and could decide she wanted to go home. In this situation she cannot be held against her will. If she deteriorates then she may be deemed to not have the mental capacity to make her own decisions and any PoA can be invoked, or the woman can be sectioned. As someone stated, mental capacity is not static and so can change.
If the woman is a nuisance/danger to others then involve social services and the police, ultimately it is those agencies that will sanction her freedom by sectioning her, although it is generally a last resort it's often the only way to force someone into care.
Likewise you cannot force someone to have home carers and if she refuses there is nothing that can be done, although some companies/carers are better than others at gaining trust. This lady sounds very confused, very scared and very vulnerable.
I am so sorry you are going through this, my mother was a nightmare to her neighbours, and family, and police (despite the help of all those agencies and family) until she was sectioned. Only then did she HAVE to accept the help she needed.

Exactly this.
It's an extreme deprivation of liberty to put someone who doesn't want to go, into a home.

Rightly so, but it's often at others' goodwill.
Neighbours,friends, people who may take advantage of the situation for nefarious reasons.

That's aside from the matter of those concrete stairs.

This person is at extreme risk.

As well as being a pain in the arse.

M0nica

Could you ring up the emergency Sociala Welfare number every time she opens and shuts he door at night. Report her as possibly wandering.

I would imagine that after a week of you ringing the night time emergency number frequently to express your concern, they might - just might - look for an alternative solution

This seems to be the best idea. The lady is not your responsibility but I understand impossible to ignore her when you think she might be in difficulties.

You need to report every single incident where your neighbour is at risk. Wandering around on the landing in a nightie makes her incredibly vulnerable. Rind the emergency duty social worker every time she is on the landing, even if it is the middle of the night, it is what they are there for. It sounds like they don;t have a clear picture of what is going on

If she was judged to have capacity when she was in the care home, her wishes to go home can't be overruled including by POA.

Sadly one of those awful situations where things have to get worse first unless when she is at home she misses the care home. Ie decision she is danger to self or others and/or has not got capacity anymore.

All the advice as above!

There is another route to SSD - if she refuses to let carers in, or the state they find her in they should report to SSD. (or could be prompted)

speakforme.co.uk/blog/lasting-power-of-attorney-can-i-stop-being-an-attorney

I was in this position last year with my neighbour. Getting up to 30 calls a day and night, as she was housebound and could only walk from her bed to her chair with assistance.

I had agreed to be her POA a few years before, as she had no other family left.

Refused to go into a care home for years until she could no longer walk. Spent a month in hospital and then decided she wanted to go into a care home. She was very demanding.

She was there for a 6 week trial. On the last day of the 6 weeks she had a stroke, and died 18 days later.

I’d spent 13 years caring for her and she gave me such a hard time, but was an angel with anyone else.

Has taken me months to get over it all. I know how you’re feeling OP, and I feel desperately for you.

I had to block her number at times and tell her the mobile phone lines were down just to get some peace. (Thank gawd she didn’t understand mobile phones!)

Surely it’s a safeguarding issue for her to be home? I know when I quoted that to SS they did help.

I’ve added a link if the couple no longer want to be her POA. They can relinquish the roles.

Not your responsibility and you have to hold on to that. Hard as it may be, keep a log of incidents with your neighbour that affect you, eg the door. Then contact S.W. service and gi e them details or send a copy of your list to whichever service deals with elderly care. There are POAs and it's their role to sort situation out.

Oh Aveline I do remember your previous post about this issue.
I’m so sorry she’s coming back to her flat causing you so much anxiety. I have nothing positive I can add to the conversation other than to say I’m thinking about you and hope this all can be resolved as soon as possible. Do, please, keep us updated.

Will do.