Awful tragedy

Galaxy

But we do need to be aware she speaks for herself and not other victims. I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, many many families of murder victims are just as vociferous in their desire for the death penalty.
I am against the death penalty and in my view it wont ever be reintroduced here but America for example is a very different culture and holds views on it we may struggle to understand.

But we do need to be aware she speaks for herself and not other victims. I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, many many families of murder victims are just as vociferous in their desire for the death penalty.

A valid point Galaxy.

I don't believe the death-penalty will ever be restored here either.

I'm with others on here who hold that a life-sentence for the kinds of horrific crimes that we are talking about has got to be for the remainder of the perpetrator's life.

Prisoners are released on the basis that they've 'paid their debt to society' and are sufficiently rehabilitated to take their place within it again.

Clearly there are crimes where neither of the above two conditions can ever apply.

Emelie321 suggested we as a society might challenge / investigate certain patterns of behaviour at an early age. I'd go along with that. It's not unusual for men (and it is mostly men) to exhibit certain 'traits' from early years. "He was always a bit chippy", "he didn't mix, kept himself to himself", "he never seemed to fit-in", etc, etc. Then there are instances where a man has been dismissed from a position or a job for "inappropriate" behaviour (towards other members of staff) - releasing the individual to continue his 'inappropriate' behaviour elsewhere...

It's contentious I realise - you can't impose on people's right to be "different" from the crowd - and I'm not versed in psychiatry so haven't got a clue how a future deviant might be recognised, but surely there must be ways of recognising the red-flags, so to speak?

Michael Bentley was given a pardon in 1993, He death in 1952 was revenge,
he was restrained by police when the shooting took place, yet he hanged

If someone plans to kill themself after doing the murder, the death penalty isn't going to be much of a deterrent is it
Somehow the desire to kill overrides everything
A friend was murdered by a neighbour, she didn't run away, she was glad she's done it. Shed blamed her for not being able to sell her house , but how would ending up inside help her sell it, there is no logic.
I do not understand why someone would do such a thing
I sort of get accidentally doing it in a fight but setting out to do it and facing time inside, I just don't get it

The website I used for the picture did give both sets of POV.

"Look at the number of people, including a significant number convicted of murder, who have been releases, sometimes, many years later, when it has been proved conclusively that they did not commit the murder they were convicted for committing."

Yes Monica - had those people been given the death sentence, which many would in the States, it would have been appalling.

I don't want to go down the USA route of guns, one of highest rates of prison populations in the world, highest rate of recidivism (yes, have looked it up!) death penalty. On another thread on Timpson different penal systems are being discussed.

I dont think it should make any difference in charging and sentencing, but would be interested what a psyche evaluation revealed.

www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/crossbow-triple-murder-suspect-kyle-clifford-is-arrested/ar-BB1pREYz?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Just remember that, if the death penalty is imposed, there has to be someone to actually kill them. My FIL was one such person . Would anyone like to be the person to have to do that? Also I read that, if there is a death penalty, juries are far more likely to find people innocent. I wouldn’t want to be on a jury having to make that decision.

anyone seen the 1962 film of 'The Quare Fellow'.
been on talking pictures recently.
with Patrick McGoohan.

This just reminded me of someone in my village who was a relative of this woman
Violet Van der Elst (4 January 1882 – 30 April 1966)[1] was a British entrepreneur and campaigner best remembered for her activities against the death penalty.

Biography
She was born Violet Anne Dodge, the daughter of a coal porter and a washerwoman, she herself worked as a scullery maid. In 1903, she married Henry Arthur Nathan, a civil engineer 13 years her senior.[2] She developed cosmetics including Shavex, the first brush-less shaving cream and became a successful businesswoman. After her first husband died on 15 November 1927, she married Jean Julien Romain Van der Elst, a Belgian who had been working for her as a manager but was also a painter.[3]

Having amassed a huge personal fortune she purchased Harlaxton Manor, in Lincolnshire, England in 1937.[4][5] She restored the house, having renamed it Grantham Castle, and had it wired for electricity.[6]

She gained publicity from her vocal campaigns against capital punishment, and stood three times, unsuccessfully, as an independent candidate to be a Member of Parliament. Firstly she fought the Putney constituency at the 1935 general election, coming third. Then she stood for Southwark Central in the 1940 by-election as an independent supporting the National Government, coming third. And lastly, she contested Hornchurch at the 1945 general election, coming fourth.

She lost most of her fortune through "obsessive litigation".[6] She was forced to sell her country house and moved to a flat in Knightsbridge, London, in 1959.

Publications
She wrote the book On the Gallows in 1937 as part of her efforts to eradicate the death penalty.[7] In the same year she published a collection of 13 ghost stories, The Torture Chamber and Other Stories.[8]

Death and legacy
Largely forgotten, she died in Ticehurst House Hospital, a lunatic asylum, in Ticehurst, Sussex, on 30 April 1966, aged 84;[9][10] her wealth reduced to £15,528,[9] having seen the abolition of capital punishment for murder in Britain the previous year.

In the 2005 film Pierrepoint, she is played by Ann Bell.

References
Gattey 1972, pp. 10 and 232
Gattey 1972, p. 13
Gattey 1972, p. 20f
Harlaxton College. "The Manor - Residents and Owners". harlaxton.evansville.edu. Retrieved 4 June 2016.
Harlaxton College. "About Us - History, Facts and Features". harlaxton.evansville.edu. Retrieved 4

James(born 1847) Thomas, William and John Billington were father and sons who all became hangmen. The suggestion is that their work affected them, ptsd, alcoholism and poor health.
It was said that James wanted to be a hangman, built a gallows in his garden and practiced by hanging dogs.

As MayBee says earlier the death penalty means the need for someone to kill the prisoner.