Awful tragedy

Why can we control testosterone in young men? We control oestrogen don’t we? And we are rarely violent. When they have committed disgusting crimes like these, they should be chemically castrated. Similar to the “treatment” they gave poor Alan Turin, who ironically almost single handedly saved our country. The rest of society should be protected against these monsters.

Tiley

Anniebach

I am against the death penalty, is hanging an innocent person acceptable which certainly happened when we did have the desth penalty

For people who commit intentional murder ie like the person we are talking about that went armed with a weapon then yes he should be killed. I hope and pray nothing like this will ever happen to a loved one of yours because God forbid it ever does I think very much you will change your point of view.

I hope and pray nothing like this will ever happen to a loved one of yours because God forbid it ever does I think very much you will change your point of view.

That 'argument' is used frequently... "you wait until it happens to you then you'll feel differently". The implication being that the person saying this is more in sympathy with the victim than the person who is against capital punishment.

Which then closes down the whole argument about the death penalty.

It also doesn't acknowledge those individuals who have themselves been the victims of such crimes and are opposed to the death penalty.

I can understand the gut reaction, I feel it too - it's instinctive, but laws are not made based on such reflexes, for obvious reasons.

You're entitled to your view, but to imply - as your comment does - that those opposed to the death penalty don't understand the full horror of murder because they aren't the victim (always preceded of course with "God forbid it should ever happen to you") is insulting.

Bringing back capital punishment will do nothing to prevent such men from committing these crimes (they not infrequently commit suicide afterwards) - we should be looking at the culture that encourages and even promotes violence against women - witness Andrew Tate and his millions of enthusiastic young male followers - it's misogyny and male-entitlement, male inadequacy, that we should be attacking, not resurrecting a penalty that I don't believe will prevent such horrific crimes.

Not to mention Anniebach's point - that innocent men have been executed in the past.

Please look up names of people arrested and imprisoned after the death penalty was abolish , innocent but found guilty ,they could have hanged

Anniebach

Please look up names of people arrested and imprisoned after the death penalty was abolish , innocent but found guilty ,they could have hanged

The argument will be of course that the death penalty should be reserved only for those where guilt is indisputable. Or even admitted.

But, apart from an admission of guilt, is it ever that black and white, I'm not referencing this current murder as I know we should not really be discussing it, so I'm not.

Restoring capital punishment would inevitably in the fullness of time lead to innocent individuals being executed.

... I understand the reaction, sometimes crimes are so unspeakably awful that you instinctively want the perpetrator dead, I just don't believe that basing any law on that instinct is a good thing.

This is a terrible crime which, as is ever the case in such circumstances, has raised a number of complex issues.We may never be able to prevent angry, entitled, testosterone fuelled young men ( it is usually, though not exclusively, men) from wreaking devastation on their ex partners and families.However, is there anything we can do as a society to challenge this behaviour at an earlier stage?
It is not so long ago, historically speaking, that anything whatsoever to do with sex could not be discussed in schools.
Could we not address the issue of violence - definitions, causes, effects, judgements, solutions - more effectively than we do now? And in safe, supported environments?

Being a viewer of true crime shows is interesting that many American families of victims of crime are opposed to the death penalty.

In cases where the perpetrator commits suicide they feel that they've escaped justice. They want their day in court.

Also it's such a traumatic procedure for many who have the perpetrator on death row, but the endless appeals drag on, in some cases for decades.

A lovely family who lost their daughter due to a shooting at a liquor store were explaining how they pleaded for life without parole as the family couldn't cope with the trauma. They loved their daughter, desperately missed her but just wanted to be able to live their lives knowing their child's killer was in prison for life.

It's very wrong to suggest that every victim's family want to see the death penalty.

I remember Tim Parry's (Warrington bomb) parents were totally opposed to the death penalty when it was being discussed about their tragedy.

It's not a deterrent either.

grandtanteJE65

Bumface

They know who did it, a man called Kyle Clifford. He is still at large. I hope the police catch him soon.

I can't imagine how horrifying it must have been for the three women.

It must be terrible for John Hunt and his other daughter.

They may know who did it, but as far as I know, until he has been tried and found guilty, his name should not have been released to the press, or printed.

The crime is horrific, but the suspect has still the right not to be named until he has been found guilty by a competent court of law.

That is not true, grandtante

There is guidance which has been issued and Police Forces can choose not to nane a suspect but
The new guidance had suggested that suspects are named only “where the crime is of a serious nature such as rape or murder” or where the incident has already been reported in the media or on social media sites.

It is guidance only.

Of course, posting too much information on social media could be prejudicial to a trial so we should all be mindful of that.

And women worry about trans people.

|I believe the news said the perpetrator had been a soldier.

A terrible tragedy. That poor man has lost all his family in the most horrific circumstances.

You are more likely to be killed with a gun or crossbow than a knife, which obviously can kill, but more chance of getting away . Obviously crossbows, guns, machetes should be restricted and not be so easily obtainable.

Eloethan

And women worry about trans people.

|I believe the news said the perpetrator had been a soldier.

A terrible tragedy. That poor man has lost all his family in the most horrific circumstances.

I did post earlier that I think the fact that he had been in the Army might be picked up by posters

However, apparengly he barely scraped through his exams and was not a success in the Army, leaving after a short time to become a security guard.

Found in a cemetery.
Let us hope he goes back there not a moment too soon- but this time in a tiny Urn.

Emelie321

This is a terrible crime which, as is ever the case in such circumstances, has raised a number of complex issues.We may never be able to prevent angry, entitled, testosterone fuelled young men ( it is usually, though not exclusively, men) from wreaking devastation on their ex partners and families.However, is there anything we can do as a society to challenge this behaviour at an earlier stage?
It is not so long ago, historically speaking, that anything whatsoever to do with sex could not be discussed in schools.
Could we not address the issue of violence - definitions, causes, effects, judgements, solutions - more effectively than we do now? And in safe, supported environments?

This approach is imo better for society generally than the suggestion we re-introduce the death penalty. Of course for murderers like this man , life must mean life.

And women worry about trans people

not true
we worry about men

Precisely JaneJudge. I’ve no problem with trans people. I’ve a big worry about the transactivists who threatened to rape my friend to death with their ‘lady penises’

Another one here against the death penalty, but I think that in such horrific cases, life should mean life.

While I understand the fury and anger at the dreadful killings, surely these feelings of revenge are not very different from the twisted motive of such murderers?

We also need to ensure that misogynistic morons such as the Tate brothers are no longer given the publicity they get.

Callistemon213

grandtanteJE65

Bumface

They know who did it, a man called Kyle Clifford. He is still at large. I hope the police catch him soon.

I can't imagine how horrifying it must have been for the three women.

It must be terrible for John Hunt and his other daughter.

They may know who did it, but as far as I know, until he has been tried and found guilty, his name should not have been released to the press, or printed.

The crime is horrific, but the suspect has still the right not to be named until he has been found guilty by a competent court of law.

That is not true, grandtante

There is guidance which has been issued and Police Forces can choose not to nane a suspect but
The new guidance had suggested that suspects are named only “where the crime is of a serious nature such as rape or murder” or where the incident has already been reported in the media or on social media sites.

It is guidance only.

Of course, posting too much information on social media could be prejudicial to a trial so we should all be mindful of that.

Also Callistemon213 when the police are quite sure of the identity of the perpetrator of a very serious crime and they want the public's help in finding that person - and to warn them of the danger he / she might present whilst at large, I would imagine they are obliged to name that person.

Clearly, there are cases where there is no doubt about the suspect's involvement and if that person is known, armed and dangerous then it would not be right to conceal their identity.

HousePlantQueen

Another one here against the death penalty, but I think that in such horrific cases, life should mean life.

While I understand the fury and anger at the dreadful killings, surely these feelings of revenge are not very different from the twisted motive of such murderers?

We also need to ensure that misogynistic morons such as the Tate brothers are no longer given the publicity they get.

While I understand the fury and anger at the dreadful killings, surely these feelings of revenge are not very different from the twisted motive of such murderers?

I thought something similar but decided it was too 'out there' to articulate.

I remember reading a while back about an awful crime committed against a family in the States. On this particular social media site, posters were verbalising the 'justice' they thought should be meted to the perpetrator, in graphic detail where they wanted that individual to suffer a prolonged and painful death under torture.

What type of person do they think would answer an advertisement for that kind of job FGS!

I can understand someone in a red mist of rage on arriving at the scene of an horrific incident exploding with anger and fury and dispensing summary justice, but the idea of a person being employed by the State to be wheeled out to cold-bloodedly abuse someone to death - Jeez, at what point does one abuser become like the other?

We also need to ensure that misogynistic morons such as the Tate brothers are no longer given the publicity they get.

On the other hand, they need to be held accountable for their views which can only be done under the spotlight. I was stunned that Farage thought him an important voice for men who had raised awareness of men becoming feminine and stood up for their ability "to be a bloke". And I make no apology for mentioning Farage's name under this topic, and shame on him for it. No one is stopping blokes from being blokes, we just want to prevent them from feeling they have the right to cat-call and whistle at random women in public like hunters trying to attract their prey, and beating them into submission if they defy the male ego.

I'm definitely in favour of the death penalty for murder that is premeditated and definitely proven, as in this case. Why should someone be then granted parole to continue their life, when the dead person can't ever do the same? Our sentencing in this country is far too lenient imo

Innocent people were hanged when we had the death penalty,
arrested, tried in a court of law , found guilty by a jury, sentenced to death b6 a judge. Hanged then found innocent,

From a US website, mother of murdered daughter

Anniebach I agree totally…. killing a killer is the same crime just with a different reason, but both have the same outcome. I don’t believe killing a person can ever be justified
What else …stocks, ducking women, are we not supposed to be a civilised society

Those are beautiful words Wyllow

I don’t agree with the death penalty. Apart from the revenge aspect it’s not a deterrent. When people commit these awful crimes the consequences of their actions aren’t at the forefront of their minds. As for this man I’m of the opinion he should just be allowed to die. The same with others who carry out such acts and then injure themselves.

Seabear I don’t agree with either of your comments. You’re hairsplitting over the OP - it is a tragedy and criticism of the sport commentator is in poor taste. Mr Hunt and his daughter are suffering now and will continue to suffer. Their lives have been shattered. The poor victims’ suffering is over. It is those left behind that need our condolences and support.

The statement written so eloquently by Marietta sums it up. We cannot take lives no matter how bad the crime. The first instinct apart from the enormity of the grief would most likely be revenge. I do think they should not be released for pre meditated murder but work whilst inside to earn partly their keep, if they refuse, no privileges, tv etc. also attend classes to see the results of anti social and violent action.

But we do need to be aware she speaks for herself and not other victims. I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, many many families of murder victims are just as vociferous in their desire for the death penalty.
I am against the death penalty and in my view it wont ever be reintroduced here but America for example is a very different culture and holds views on it we may struggle to understand.

The problem of capital punishment is that it is irreversible, and as we well know there are a number of people whose guilt seemed quite unquestionable at the time, but have later been found to be innocent.

Tinothy Evans, doubts about what Michael Bentley meant in the phrase that led to his execution, and those are about 2.

Look at the number of people, including a significant number convicted of murder, who have been releases, sometimes, many years later, when it has been proved conclusively that they did not commit the murder they were convicted for committing.