Winter fuel allowance result

biglouis

*Many pensioners do not need WFA. I’d increase the basic pension to the living wage equivalent, with the result more well off pensioners would pay tax and others spared the need to run the gauntlet of pension credit applications*

This is one solution to the problem.

If someone argues why should pensioners be paid the same as "working families" my answer to that is they are still in process of "making" their contribution to the community. We have already "made" ours. Many pensioners are still working - if not in the employed/self employed economy they work as volunteers, carers and childminders.

The contribution of older people is disgracefully under valued.

It certainly is

Agree 100% with much of what @Bigbopper says. I too voted Reform and am a great believer in charity beginning at home.

They could have slashed the foreign aid budget instead. Too much money going to those who have contributed nothing to this country.

I saw a 99 year old ex military man on TV tonight who cannot believe what the Labour Party have done. He cannot get the WFP as he gets a small private pension.

Lisaangel10

I saw a 99 year old ex military man on TV tonight who cannot believe what the Labour Party have done. He cannot get the WFP as he gets a small private pension.

Yes I saw that.

Casdon

Rekarie

There was a panellist on Jeremy Vine this morning. She was rather loud insisting that if a pensioner owns a million pound house they don't need help with fuel.

I beg to differ. Some people have owned their homes for decades. Obviously they didn't pay a million for it.

My neighbour was widowed in her 60s. She stayed in the family home and coped well. However she was cash poor as many people are.

The panellist kept going on about downsizing. As if it was simple. I'm sure most of us know the stress of buying/selling property. Why should she have to sell her home? And who would assist.

It's just unfair

So the state should subsidise somebody who can’t face the hassle of moving from a family home to one they can afford to buy and to run without state help. Surely that’s not what you mean?

Casdon would you also be in favour of pensioners who are in rented family homes and in receipt of housing benefit being told to move somewhere smaller or be subject to the 'bedroom tax' and thus save the state some money?

The amount saved by this blanket withdrawal of WFA from most pensioners is tiny in the great scheme of things. If the estimated 800,000 pensioners eligible for PC take it up the saving will be even less. At the very least it should not have happened this winter since there is little time to budget for the loss. They could have just made it a taxable benefit so that the richest pensioners would repay a substantial amount.

My MP was one of the 'didn't vote' brigade. No surprise there, he's happy to claim every penny he legally can including charging for an expensive camera apparently necessary to fulfil his role as an MP. I know he enjoys the subsidised alcohol in the HOC. What other workplace, especially a publicly financed one, provides subsidised alcohol on the premises for their employees?

Why does someone who lives alone need a big house, regardless of their age?

Of course there may well be good reason, but should others need to subsidise that choice?

Rosie51

Casdon

Rekarie

There was a panellist on Jeremy Vine this morning. She was rather loud insisting that if a pensioner owns a million pound house they don't need help with fuel.

I beg to differ. Some people have owned their homes for decades. Obviously they didn't pay a million for it.

My neighbour was widowed in her 60s. She stayed in the family home and coped well. However she was cash poor as many people are.

The panellist kept going on about downsizing. As if it was simple. I'm sure most of us know the stress of buying/selling property. Why should she have to sell her home? And who would assist.

It's just unfair

So the state should subsidise somebody who can’t face the hassle of moving from a family home to one they can afford to buy and to run without state help. Surely that’s not what you mean?

Casdon would you also be in favour of pensioners who are in rented family homes and in receipt of housing benefit being told to move somewhere smaller or be subject to the 'bedroom tax' and thus save the state some money?

The amount saved by this blanket withdrawal of WFA from most pensioners is tiny in the great scheme of things. If the estimated 800,000 pensioners eligible for PC take it up the saving will be even less. At the very least it should not have happened this winter since there is little time to budget for the loss. They could have just made it a taxable benefit so that the richest pensioners would repay a substantial amount.

My MP was one of the 'didn't vote' brigade. No surprise there, he's happy to claim every penny he legally can including charging for an expensive camera apparently necessary to fulfil his role as an MP. I know he enjoys the subsidised alcohol in the HOC. What other workplace, especially a publicly financed one, provides subsidised alcohol on the premises for their employees?

In principle yes, when housing is so short for families I do think it’s hard to justify people who don’t need three or four bedrooms occupying them alone. However, the alternative smaller accommodation needs to be of a good standard and in mixed communities just as the family homes are, and people should be able to stay in their previous area when they downsize, they shouldn’t be forced to move miles from everything familiar.

This is the problem, many pensioners, like myself face, we bought our homes in the 50's and 60's and yes, they went up in value. Remember the 17% mortgage rate we had to pay. Our homes are worth quite a lot more than they were when we bought them but that is not income that is where we live.

The granting of the winter fuel allowance it is based solely on income, not what our homes cost, but what money we have coming into the home every year.

I have a state pension in my own right only because I did not opt in to the womens stamp but paid the full insurance stamp. I also took a few years off work to raise our children so I didn't pay any insurance stamps in those years. so my state pension is lower than some peoples. My husband died a few years ago so I get a portion of his private pension and that is the reason I pay tax on my income and cannot get the Winter Fuel Allowance as I am slightly over the threshold for claiming benefits.

We oldies were taught to save for a rainy day, we were encouraged to invest in private pensions but that is now why we are being penalised because many of us will have a small private pension either our own or our husbands in my case my late husbands.

A friend of mine annoyed me when she said she didn't mind losing the winter fuel allowance as they were okay I told her that she had her state pension, her husbands state pension, her private pension and her husbands private pension to live on so of course she does not need the WFA. I live alone. I told her to wait and see when anything happens to her or her husband she or her husband will be in the same boat as me and many others.

I and many more like me who live alone still have a house to run, whether there is just one person or four people in the house, the lights have to be on, the television is on. Washing has to be done and while having the machine on for one persons washing I could wash four peoples clothes. When using the oven, which has now become obsolete, I could cook meals for four people rather than one. I bought a small air fryer recently in the sale so I use that now. I make toast in the toaster and warm soup in the microwave.

I think this boils down to the Labour government knowing the easiest way to get money into their coffers is to target pensioners as they know where we live. Train drivers get £70,000 a year, pensioners get £11,500 state pension without any chance of earning more money, so they take money from us as they do not want to upset the unions.

What really annoys me is that Labour say we pensioners will be better off in five years time, well, Starmer and Reeves you thieves, many of us won't be around in five years time so that will put smiles on your miserable faces.

What goes around comes around and I hope what does come around for you and your government will put you on your knees and make you pray for forgiveness.

WOW, now I know free speech is dead and buried. Go ahead and report me if you want.

The above message is meant for ILOVECHEESE

Ilovecheese

I have never reported any posts apart from spam but BigBopper could change that with some of the nonsense being spouted.

Now I know free speech is dead.

Go ahead and report me.

glammagran

For the past 2 winters we have not had our heating on past 6pm in the evening. This is because we purchased electrically heated throws which cost pennies to run. We are not hard up but didn’t like paying so much extra in fuel bills. If you can afford the expense they are well worth having as they have up to 10 heat settings. As advice I would buy the largest size as they cover you better. They really do work.

Whilst we don’t need the WFP we did give ours to our DD as she has young children, a mortgage, car purchase payments and childcare costs on the days GP’s don’t have them. They have never been able to afford a summer holiday.

The problem is the damage not having heating in your home is doing to the structure of the building. Damp, Mould, windows streaming with water and burst pipes. Your clothes in the wardrobes will start smelling musty.

Why should we have to go back to the 1940's and 50's when we are living in the 21 st century.

pensioners get £11,500 state pension

BigBopper the full old state pension is actually £8,814.00 pa.

When all's said and done - saving £1.6 billion out of this alleged black hole of £22 billion is chicken feed.

We have to confront neo-liberal Capitalism which protects the very wealthy elite who shift money around, create spurious companies to hide their wealth and employ a virtual army of accountants to do just that.

Or do we continue to penalise those with the least to grab the odd 1-2 billion here and there. This isn't just about impoverished pensioners.

The problem is the damage not having heating in your home is doing to the structure of the building. Damp, Mould, windows streaming with water and burst pipes. Your clothes in the wardrobes will start smelling musty

Why should we have to go back to the 1940's and 50's when we are living in the 21 st century

This>

£22 billion is actually only a small amount in comparison to total government spending.

The problem is, it keeps being mentioned and used as an excuse at every opportunity.

Meanwhile, in the news today, Elon Musk is heading towards being the first trillionaire.

BigBopper

This is the problem, many pensioners, like myself face, we bought our homes in the 50's and 60's and yes, they went up in value. Remember the 17% mortgage rate we had to pay. Our homes are worth quite a lot more than they were when we bought them but that is not income that is where we live.

The granting of the winter fuel allowance it is based solely on income, not what our homes cost, but what money we have coming into the home every year.

I have a state pension in my own right only because I did not opt in to the womens stamp but paid the full insurance stamp. I also took a few years off work to raise our children so I didn't pay any insurance stamps in those years. so my state pension is lower than some peoples. My husband died a few years ago so I get a portion of his private pension and that is the reason I pay tax on my income and cannot get the Winter Fuel Allowance as I am slightly over the threshold for claiming benefits.

We oldies were taught to save for a rainy day, we were encouraged to invest in private pensions but that is now why we are being penalised because many of us will have a small private pension either our own or our husbands in my case my late husbands.

A friend of mine annoyed me when she said she didn't mind losing the winter fuel allowance as they were okay I told her that she had her state pension, her husbands state pension, her private pension and her husbands private pension to live on so of course she does not need the WFA. I live alone. I told her to wait and see when anything happens to her or her husband she or her husband will be in the same boat as me and many others.

I and many more like me who live alone still have a house to run, whether there is just one person or four people in the house, the lights have to be on, the television is on. Washing has to be done and while having the machine on for one persons washing I could wash four peoples clothes. When using the oven, which has now become obsolete, I could cook meals for four people rather than one. I bought a small air fryer recently in the sale so I use that now. I make toast in the toaster and warm soup in the microwave.

I think this boils down to the Labour government knowing the easiest way to get money into their coffers is to target pensioners as they know where we live. Train drivers get £70,000 a year, pensioners get £11,500 state pension without any chance of earning more money, so they take money from us as they do not want to upset the unions.

What really annoys me is that Labour say we pensioners will be better off in five years time, well, Starmer and Reeves you thieves, many of us won't be around in five years time so that will put smiles on your miserable faces.

What goes around comes around and I hope what does come around for you and your government will put you on your knees and make you pray for forgiveness.

A brilliant post BigBopper.

We won't be better off in 5 years time. The rises we will have will only compensate (maybe) everything else that will go up in price during that time.
Labour speak as though it will be spare money and we'll be able to save it.
I'd like to know if MP's heating allowance for their second homes has been stopped. I don't hear what they are cutting out to fill the black hole.

Dickens

When all's said and done - saving £1.6 billion out of this alleged black hole of £22 billion is chicken feed.

We have to confront neo-liberal Capitalism which protects the very wealthy elite who shift money around, create spurious companies to hide their wealth and employ a virtual army of accountants to do just that.

Or do we continue to penalise those with the least to grab the odd 1-2 billion here and there. This isn't just about impoverished pensioners.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

You've said it better than I did! This 'grab' from pensioners is truly chicken feed. There's far more to be made from taxing Amazon, Boots, the rich and so many others in an effective way, but that's harder to do. I really had hopes for a Labour government which is why I voted for my useless sitting Labour MP. He that sucks up every concession and perk that he can, but isn't seen locally ever. We were one of the new drawn constituencies so I assume he concentrated any efforts in the Conservative part of the constituency that was conscripted.
I want a fairer state, a state that recognises the difference of need and ability to address that need on an individual basis. I have a grandson with complex additional needs, I'd like to be confident his needs will be met. What I don't want is for some to be left shivering and hungry because they don't have the clout to cause problems to the incumbent government.

I also have family in the Police service, you know those few workers (including prison officers) for whom it's illegal to strike. I wonder, if as public service employees, they will regain pay parity............

It's disgusting. However Baroness Ros Altmann is supposed to be tabling a "fatal motion" in the House of Lords tomorrow (today - Wednesday), to force the Gov to cancel the decision. If it gets voted through they can force the cancellation for a year. Which at least would delay it.

pensionsandsavings.com/winter-fuel-payments-votes-in-parliament-are-a-chance-to-reconsider-this-irresponsible-decision/

gentleshores

It's disgusting. However Baroness Ros Altmann is supposed to be tabling a "fatal motion" in the House of Lords tomorrow (today - Wednesday), to force the Gov to cancel the decision. If it gets voted through they can force the cancellation for a year. Which at least would delay it.

pensionsandsavings.com/winter-fuel-payments-votes-in-parliament-are-a-chance-to-reconsider-this-irresponsible-decision/

Oh, good. there might be some hope then.
Fingers crossed.

P,S thanks for the link.

gentleshores

... thanks for the link!

Ros Altmann makes some good points about the real effect this ill-thought-through benefit cut will have on a number of pensioners.

I have no personal gripe about forfeiting a benefit I can manage without - in an equitable and fair society. I also believe that essentials - water and energy - should not be in the hands of private ownership.

Until or unless we have a more equal society, this non-sense of punitively punishing those with the least in order to maintain the wealth concentrated in the hands of the few will continue.

I accept that this new government has to find money from somewhere, but this is not the place to start. I am not old enough to have received the WFA but that doesn't stop even me understanding how vital it is to many many pensioners.

It's the timing that seems so off. I would have expected KS and team to have delayed it to next year. That would have allowed time to sort out alternative measures to assist pensioners who really need the allowance.

I really think this government is devoid of any feeling and any sensitivity.

On another issue, which isn't of importance on this thread, I accept the 20% VAT on school fees, (even though it is against my principles), but I will be very disappointed if it is also swiftly brought in in January 2025 thus disrupting the academic year for so many pupils, and teachers.
Added stress is not needed, neither in welfare nor in education. A government without a heart, it seems.

Dickens

gentleshores

... thanks for the link!

Ros Altmann makes some good points about the real effect this ill-thought-through benefit cut will have on a number of pensioners.

I have no personal gripe about forfeiting a benefit I can manage without - in an equitable and fair society. I also believe that essentials - water and energy - should not be in the hands of private ownership.

Until or unless we have a more equal society, this non-sense of punitively punishing those with the least in order to maintain the wealth concentrated in the hands of the few will continue.

Yes!