winter fuel payment and the government,

Sago

Much as despise our current government, shouldn’t we be looking at the energy companies and what they are charging?

Their profits have risen sharply since the so called energy crisis.

www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/energy-giants-see-457-billion-profits-as-consumers-bills-rise/#:~:text=As%20of%20the%20end%20of,before%20the%20energy%20crisis%20started.

We’ve been had.

Agreed. We certainly have been had.

"While many are eager to criticize, few propose constructive solutions to the problem at hand.

We face a significant challenge with an aging population, where state-funded incomes for the elderly are growing at a rate that outpaces the earnings of current workers. This pay-as-you-go system relies on today’s workforce supporting today’s retirees, many of whom enjoy a higher standard of living than the employees funding their pensions.

Any proposed changes must consider the concerns of those contributing to the system, rather than simply appealing to those who benefit from it.

While many are eager to criticize, few propose constructive solutions to the problem at hand.
Well, that obvious on GN because nobody has all the necessary information on any issue to hand. Even those who do extensive research on here, (which is interesting to discuss), are merely finding out snippets from the far bigger picture to which we mere citizens are not privy. So constructive solutions are difficult to propose.

That is why we debate escaped. Debate entails each point of view being backed by facts so each learns from others.

The alternative - open to all - is simply not to bother expanding our knowledge.

Exactly. But maybe some posters realise it is futile in the end so don't proffer a solution! It's often good to just read and reflect, and then moan!

I think we focus on the wrong things. The WFP is a complete side issue to the fact that we have a section of society with an income that is too low, WFP doesn't address that and when it was a universal benefit a high percentage who received it, didn't need it. It's exactly the same with IHT on agricultural land, proper farmers struggle to get a decent income from their land, absence of IHT didn't address that but is a huge benefit to extremely wealthy people who use it as a tax shield thereby putting the price of land up to ridiculous prices that bear no resemblance to the value of what it produces.
I think anyone who undertakes a caring role should receive an extra state retirement benefit which reflects the fact that it has prevented them taking paid work and paying into a private pension but it should be taxed so it is just like a private pension that anyone else pays into. The current change in carer's allowance is iniquitous and this would help to offset that to some degree.

I don’t know much about carers’ allowance, foxy, but in principle I agree. I think it would have to be monitored to ensure that those claiming are needed as carers (ie that the people being cared for are in need of care), but in the vast majority of cases that would be a given. Caring is a difficult and demanding role, and not one that everyone can do well. It should be properly compensated when done in an ‘informal’ manner (eg by family), and there should be workplace conditions in place to allow breaks and so on.

Doodledog

I don’t know much about carers’ allowance, foxy, but in principle I agree. I think it would have to be monitored to ensure that those claiming are needed as carers (ie that the people being cared for are in need of care), but in the vast majority of cases that would be a given. Caring is a difficult and demanding role, and not one that everyone can do well. It should be properly compensated when done in an ‘informal’ manner (eg by family), and there should be workplace conditions in place to allow breaks and so on.

I don’t disagree, but how would this be assessed and monitored. I looked after my terminally ill father, in our own home. I also had the roles of wife, mother and part time worker. Would such a person be deemed as getting less support than a single person looking after a parent in similar circumstances?

escaped

Exactly. But maybe some posters realise it is futile in the end so don't proffer a solution! It's often good to just read and reflect, and then moan!

Is it? I have never found moaning moves anything in life. However positivity and patience can.

You reflect what were becoming my constant comments a whileback foxie48 "It’s the wrong argument".

PoliticsNerd

You reflect what were becoming my constant comments a whileback foxie48 "It’s the wrong argument".

I've also said it before but if people just want an argument rather than a discussion, it falls on deaf ears!

I suffer with health conditions which means I have to keep warm otherwise I have severe problems.
My heating is on and staying on . I only recieve the 'old' state pension which is less than the New state pension
But I still don't qualify for the WFP. People who only work part time can claim working tax credits , child tax credits and get help to pay the mortgage plus the WFP on top of their wages . Something wrong somewhere !

Nanato3

I suffer with health conditions which means I have to keep warm otherwise I have severe problems.
My heating is on and staying on . I only recieve the 'old' state pension which is less than the New state pension
But I still don't qualify for the WFP. People who only work part time can claim working tax credits , child tax credits and get help to pay the mortgage plus the WFP on top of their wages . Something wrong somewhere !

Don’t you have to be in receipt of the SP to get the WFP? I doubt if many pensioners are getting child tax credits.

Child tax credits were done away with quite a while ago - it's now universal credit (I lost about 300 per year after the change)

There may still be areas who are behind in the migration, but I doubt it.

Yes, there is a transition period. Child Tax Credits end on 5 April 2025. Turn2us explains:

Child Tax Credit is being replaced by Universal Credit. You will only able to get Child Tax Credit if you are already getting Working Tax Credit and then become responsible for a child. Otherwise, if you want extra money to help with the costs of raising children, you will have to get it through Universal Credit (if you or your partner are below pension age), or Pension Credit (if you and your partner are both over Pension age).

If you've received a notice letter telling you to claim Universal Credit, read our guide Universal Credit Migration Notice to find out about your next steps.

You can find out whether you can make a claim for Child Tax Credit by using our Benefits Calculator or by seeking advice.

If you are on Child Tax Credit and your situation stays the same, you won’t have to claim Universal Credit until you receive your notice. The DWP started issuing these notices to people on tax credits in 2022 and aims to complete this process by March 2025.

www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/child-tax-credit/can-i-get-child-tax-credit

I've been transitioned onto universal credit for some time.

I think my work hours changed, and they said "Ah, good, now we've got you on the phone, we'll send you the forms..."

Nanato3

I suffer with health conditions which means I have to keep warm otherwise I have severe problems.
My heating is on and staying on . I only recieve the 'old' state pension which is less than the New state pension
But I still don't qualify for the WFP. People who only work part time can claim working tax credits , child tax credits and get help to pay the mortgage plus the WFP on top of their wages . Something wrong somewhere !

Nanato3, do you know why you are not getting Pension Credit? Is it your income or your savings? Have you actually applied or or asked those who help the elderly to look into what you can apply for?

merlotgran

People who think it’s a good idea to not pay their fuel bills and to hell with the consequences may not be aware that they will be fitted with a Pay As You Go meter. It will be loaded so any outstanding debt is paid off by including it in each payment. This means you are constantly feeding a monster just to keep warm and even during the summer months you are paying a higher rate.

A friend of mine fell into this trap a few years ago. She was with British Gas and they refused to change the meter back even after the debt was paid as they deemed her a high risk customer.

Unfortunately - merlotgran is correct on that front I'm afraid. That is precisely what they would do and the Government would draw no distinction between a younger person having children they can't afford and/or spending money on obvious luxuries on the one hand and OAP's who've genuinely done their best/budgeted as best they could etc - but just not receiving enough income to live on on the other hand.

Mollygo

DD
I have nothing against giving children free breakfasts - nurturing the young is surely as important as protecting the old? I didn't make the connection between the two, anyway. You did.

Yes I did make that connection.
It’s quite strange that it should be right to give parents who don’t need it, the chance to get their children fed and cared for for free, but that people who may not fit the exact criteria for WFP should not be protected as you put it.
Even KS had a problem with the WFP. Wrong if Sunak was cancelling it, but right if he did it, so the two-facedness of his attitude to not protecting people who might need but don’t qualify for WFP and his willingness to give handouts to parents who don’t need it is not really surprising.

You however imply that I am against giving children free breakfasts which is untrue.

How did I appear to imply that? I don’t.

I do, however, recognise an attempt to discredit a government you so clearly despise, by using an emotive example of hungry children, despite your protestations of ‘balance’ .

As I keep saying, I don’t think the withdrawal of the WFA was done well at all, and as I also keep saying, means-testing is very unfair. All the same, if the choice (as you suggest there must be by linking the two things) is between giving a child a breakfast that may not be ‘needed’ and giving a pensioner £300 to spend on school fees or a second home, I would rather risk wasting it on the child. I don’t think there has to be such a choice at all.

DD
You seem to take great pleasure in implying things I don’t say -do carry on.
If you can’t recognise your own implications . . .

I don’t think children should go hungry any more than you do.

However, when we’re constantly being told by the government, how short of money we are, giving handouts (however they are disguised) to parents who don’t need them, is just as wrong as giving out WFP to pensioners who don’t need it.

I've a child I can't afford.
I spend sweet sod all on luxuries.

Just for the record, in case we're tempted to tar everyone with the same brush.

I think there are pensioners who have plenty of money and who do not need the WFA - but who complain vociferously about losing it.

On the other hand, I know there are pensioners who are poor but not poor enough to receive pension credit. I believe they can apply to local councils for assistance but I assume there is a limited amount of money set aside for this. It is worrying that some older people will suffer.

There are also families with young children who are struggling - and the limit for child benefit to only 2 children places a terrible strain on them too. After 14 years of neglect, corruption and mis-management there are so many needs that it is difficult to see how they can all be met.

I wondered whether, if the government had sent out letters asking pensioners to either opt in or out of WFA, that would work. My friends say that it is naive to think anyone would refuse the payment if it was open to them to accept it. I think, though, that a lot of people who could honestly afford to, would opt out. It wouldn't save as much money as restricting it only to pension credit holders but I am sure it would save at least some money.

Mollygo

DD
You seem to take great pleasure in implying things I don’t say -do carry on.
If you can’t recognise your own implications . . .

I don’t think children should go hungry any more than you do.

However, when we’re constantly being told by the government, how short of money we are, giving handouts (however they are disguised) to parents who don’t need them, is just as wrong as giving out WFP to pensioners who don’t need it.

If that’s your idea of ‘balance’ it’s not mine. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am, but please don’t pretend you are not sniping at the government at every opportunity, as it is blindingly obvious that you are. I take no pleasure in objecting to your views, believe me.

* MissA* anyone can have a child they later ‘can’t afford’. Such is life, and that’s why we should be happy to pay into a welfare state. Who knows what is round the corner?

What I object to is not that, but to those who want a free ride (where they just opt out of paying in, but are happy to take out), and to those who expect to be given money for no obvious reason, such as objectively wealthy people moaning about losing free money whilst suggesting that there is equivalence with children getting free breakfasts to which the moaners don’t think they are entitled.

That's fair comment, as far as I'm concerned, but there are an awful .ot of people concerned that some other group in society are getting money, perhaps more then they themselves get.

It leads to everyone feeling put out and hard done by, and more determined to grasp what they can, understandably.

That's clear, and was long before the fuel allowance removal.

Agreed. I hope that’s not underpinning my own resentment (which I admit to) of those who swan through life expecting others to provide. If I’m honest I feel more resentful in older age, as I realise that many people have played a system that I bought into - that we all pay in and can all take out of.

A good friend of mine never worked after marriage and now gets the full state pension because her husband paid only the pension contributions to NI, in her behalf, on the advice of their accountant.

I never stopped working and had no choice but to pay the full amount of tax and NI - significantly more than the pension contribution - and had no accountant to point out the folly of my ways. Their family didn’t pay for childcare or commuting, or for cleaners and the other services that working families often need.

She now gets a full pension whilst mine is reduced by taxation. I have always paid tax and she hasn’t. How is that fair?

I don’t like myself for resenting this. I do believe that a fair society is one in which the strong support the weak. But this friend had a private education, a free university place and has benefited from all the things that taxpayers have provided, whilst contributing nothing.

I feel more resentful of that than I do about young women with gel nails and tattoos getting benefits, people having ‘the latest phone’ or anyone whose life hasn’t happened to follow a plan. Plans don’t always work out.

I really hope that this is clear from my posts, although I realise that they are read in isolation.