Mother sentenced for twins’ deaths

I can only imagine the pressure must have built up as they look well looked after kids and in all the photos of them they look happy and mischievous and fun so I can’t believe they had lived in squalor for years or even months
I wonder how often they were taken off her hands for her to get a rest Perhaps going to the shop was her only ‘out time’, just tragic all round

BlueBelle

Allira they surely couldn’t have been living in squalor when those photos were taken they were clean, tidy, dressed well and dressed for the weather, with proper coats and warm hats
Anyone not able to keep the house clean wouldn’t have been washing the clothes or keeping the children so pristine
Perhaps the house had only gone down hill more recently Perhaps she’d had a recentbbreakdown

Actually it is possible. My kids went to playgroup with a local family who lived in my road. Kids immaculate, mum would bake wonderful cakes for cake sales at playgroup and school.

They went on holiday and the woman who came in and fed my animals if we were away was asked to feed their cats. Well she came to my door and asked me if I'd go in the house with her as she felt so uncomfortable. I was a bit surprised but went. What a shock I got. The house was absolutely disgusting. The woman who worked as a dog walker and house sitter with animals was heaving at the smell and I presume she was used to animal smells.

I also saw social workers visiting once, don't know why, but they ended up having their meeting with her sitting on the front wall. I assume they couldn't cope with the smell either.

I only know they were social workers as one of the children was playing with mine and pointed out the one woman and said, "That's my social worker."

Pantglas2

We read so much on this site about estrangement where adults decide that their parents are no longer needed or wanted even in grandchildren’s lives. I wonder whether this might have been the case here?

From Woodenspoons post it sounds like it.

But perhaps she could have managed with support and help Maddy they looked loved
How many photos have we seen of dirty kids with ingrained fingernails and rags for clothes these weren’t like that were
they ?

In police interviews, Rose admitted leaving the boys alone in the house on two earlier occasions

Whatever the problems the mother had there was no excuse for leaving four small boys alone in the house.
She will suffer the consequences now for the rest of her life.

As for criticism of the wider family, grandmother, great-grandmother, none of us know the circumstances so none should condemn them. They are devastateed

For those who want the true picture it’s online at suttonguardian. She refused help. Social workers, health visitors, fathers family all tried to help but it was refused.

I agree, the children should have been in care, where they would never have been in the sole charge of one inadequate woman.
Our totally broken social system allowed this tragedy to happen then the mother was punished for it.

No not fact theworriedwell, just my opinion.

woodenspoon

For those who want the true picture it’s online at suttonguardian. She refused help. Social workers, health visitors, fathers family all tried to help but it was refused.

That in itself was a red flag for the authorities.

Thanks woodenspoon.

It's a tragic story. Who knows - maybe she lost control of the house, and was too embarrassed to let people in and see the mess?

Going to Sainsbury's, if it was a 10 minute walk is no better or worse than the McCanns going to dinner and leaving little ones alone. Terrible consequences, and not something I ever did, but the differences in the way the two cases have been treated is stark.

I'm not defending her really. But I can't imagine what having so many children so young must be like as a single parent, and coupled with MH issues or learning difficulties and no obvious support, life must have been incredibly difficult for her. Ten years, as well as the guilt she must be feeling seems very harsh.

I can say honestly hand on my heart, if I thought my grandkids were in danger of neglect and I was being refused access, I would kick the door down, yes the Police would come, and I'd kick up such a fuss.
Maybe then the authorities would see with their own eyes the devastation and mess before them... And to hell with the consequences for me. Children come first.

Doodledog

It's a tragic story. Who knows - maybe she lost control of the house, and was too embarrassed to let people in and see the mess?

Going to Sainsbury's, if it was a 10 minute walk is no better or worse than the McCanns going to dinner and leaving little ones alone. Terrible consequences, and not something I ever did, but the differences in the way the two cases have been treated is stark.

I'm not defending her really. But I can't imagine what having so many children so young must be like as a single parent, and coupled with MH issues or learning difficulties and no obvious support, life must have been incredibly difficult for her. Ten years, as well as the guilt she must be feeling seems very harsh.

Rose also lied to the firefighters about leaving them with a babysitter, thus putting the firefighters' lives at risk when they went back into the fire to search for this non-existent person.

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

I think this is also down to a breakdown in communities. I was brought up in a close knit community in a small mill town in Lancashire. My parents would leave myself and sister alone in the house at times when we were quite small but our auntie and uncle lived two doors up, our nana was on the next street and other aunties and uncles lived nearby as well as neighbours who were like relatives, so we might have been alone but our front door was unlocked as was everybody else’s so relatives and neighbours rarely left us alone for long. Indeed a neighbour widowed at a very young age was left with a small child and we all knew she struggled so the child was in and out of all our houses, being fed, given hand me downs, and the mother frequently received a covered dish for dinner or a small amount of money that was never expected to be paid back despite everyone being strapped for cash. That’s how we survived the hard times. But now parents like this poor woman are isolated and have to struggle to cope alone.

HousePlantQueen

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

If they didn't know, why didn't they?

If she'd kept them from visiting but the boys always seemed happy, fed and looked after when the relatives saw them, how would they know?

The boys weren't old enough to realise their conditions they lived in were unusual.
Why on earth was there a mattress and a door on the stairs?

The authorities have questions to answer yet again.

This lady had mental health problems and she us nearly blind. The loss of her children must be very hard to bear. Also she did ask for help as she was not coping.
The above said, let's not forget she lied to the fire fighters who put their lives at risk to go back in to a burning building, mental health is no excuse for lying like that, and she needs to be punished for that.
Ten years in my opinion is too long, but I hope she gets the help she needs, also she may not serve her full sentence.

HousePlantQueen

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

Well at sentencing the judge said, "Your parents, Dalton’s grandmother, mother and step-father, and to some extent
Dalton himself, all played a role in assisting with care." So they were helping.

How are these people all being blamed when she was the one who left those children alone in a dangerous house?

Poor kids. Someone would have loved them and been a better parent than her. Why didn’t social services pick something up?

Rose also lied to the firefighters about leaving them with a babysitter, thus putting the firefighters' lives at risk when they went back into the fire to search for this non-existent person.
Yes, that was stupid. I'm not saying that any of it is anything other than awful. I just wonder how much is because of her inadequacy as opposed to wickedness, and I can't help comparing her case to the McCanns.

rafichagran

This lady had mental health problems and she us nearly blind. The loss of her children must be very hard to bear. Also she did ask for help as she was not coping.
The above said, let's not forget she lied to the fire fighters who put their lives at risk to go back in to a burning building, mental health is no excuse for lying like that, and she needs to be punished for that.
Ten years in my opinion is too long, but I hope she gets the help she needs, also she may not serve her full sentence.

She refused treatment for her eye condition and discharged herself from hospital. Another very bad decision she made.

and she us nearly blind

I have seen no reports that that is the case.

Allira

^and she us nearly blind^

I have seen no reports that that is the case.

It was mentioned at sentencing by the judge. He had medical reports on her mental health but also about her eye condition and her discharging herself from hospital. This was after the boys died.

None of us know anything about her family. Perhaps she stopped them from visiting, who knows? I agree that prison is not the right place for her as she would probably suffer at the hands of the other prisoners. I think she needs specialist mental health help so should be held in a MH hospital. A tragedy all round. It breaks my heart that so many little children are dying recently.

The judge also mentioned ( during sentencing) that ‘tea lights were being used. The mother also smoked. I don’t know if the tea lights were the candle type or battery type. I can’t imagine using candles with small children running around.
This house fire was tragic. 4 little boys! But leaving them awake ( I don’t know if they were awake when left- it was early evening) and alone if there were candles lit - is unthinkable .

Allsorts

Where are the fathers! Where is the family. Four children neglected and now dead. Social Services are over stretched. This was a person that would need constant monitoring and assessment. She knows right from wrong. She should never be allowed to have more children
. .

And the milk of human kindness just keeps on flowing, not 😡