Mother sentenced for twins’ deaths

It's all very well being devastated after the tragedy. But the grandparents and husband may not have "parental responsibility" but surely they should have tried their utmost to help with practicalities when a mum has overwhelming responsibilities like 3 yo plus 4 yo twins?
I'm sure the poor mum is 10 times as devastated as them.

I was very sad and sorry to read this story when it broke, they looked adorable little boys. I went to school with twins who had siblings who were twins and these two sets were so close in age, the logistics of managing 4 children under 5 would be more than full on for anyone, I don't think that can be under estimated, especially as a lone parent. Having said that I never understand, when I read about houses that are smeared with excrement, maybe one of the kids took their nappy off and did that, but no matter how stressed, even if everything else went to pot, that would have to be cleaned off the wall. I didn't read how long she was out for, maybe it wasn't that long, I know Sutton, Sainsbury's is in the high street, possibly she popped out for some emergency provision, shame she didn't ask the friend to stay with the boys whilst she did that.. Nevertheless, leaving little 'uns with tea lights on a recipe for disaster, they were so young certainly they didn't have the wherewithal to know what to do. I can't help having some sympathy for her, she shouldn't have done it of course, but she's lost all her children. I was more angry with a teenage mother a couple of years ago who went on a 6 day partying spree leaving her 18 month old on her own for that duration. I remember feeling at the time, "what is it you don't understand that any sentient being cannot be left without sustenance for that long, let alone a baby, who had died in her absence.

As much as the boys in this instance died from the mother's negligence exacerbated by MH issues, I don't think prison is the right place for her.

valdali

It's all very well being devastated after the tragedy. But the grandparents and husband may not have "parental responsibility" but surely they should have tried their utmost to help with practicalities when a mum has overwhelming responsibilities like 3 yo plus 4 yo twins?
I'm sure the poor mum is 10 times as devastated as them.

Well the judge said they did help. I'm assuming he didn't just make that up. He said her parents the fathers mother and grandmother and the father.

She was out shopping and chatting to her friend while her children were dying. Her friend said she sounded normal chatting and laughing. She was then quite capable of making up a lie about someone being with the children to cover her own back. She wasn't so devastated that she couldn't put herself first and to hell with the firefighters who then risked their lives to find this person.

She has a terrible burden to live with but it was her who took the risk.

Margiknot

The judge also mentioned ( during sentencing) that ‘tea lights were being used. The mother also smoked. I don’t know if the tea lights were the candle type or battery type. I can’t imagine using candles with small children running around.
This house fire was tragic. 4 little boys! But leaving them awake ( I don’t know if they were awake when left- it was early evening) and alone if there were candles lit - is unthinkable .

They must have been awake because they ran upstairs and banged on the window.
A neighbour tried to break down the door to try to get in to rescue them but couldn't.
Just tragic.

A very sad story. A woman who was wrong to leave her children alone, yes, but who clearly couldn’t cope. I can’t begin to imagine being in her shoes. Her real sentence is having to live with this terrible tragedy for the rest of her life.

Just so sad - for those poor little boys and for her,too. She’s not going to have a happy life after this. I don’t know how she coped when they were all in nappies but they look happy in that photo.

Barleyfields

A very sad story. A woman who was wrong to leave her children alone, yes, but who clearly couldn’t cope. I can’t begin to imagine being in her shoes. Her real sentence is having to live with this terrible tragedy for the rest of her life.

Couldn't cope but could immediately come up with a story to cover the fact she'd left them alone. Able to cope protecting herself.

Nanicky

I can say honestly hand on my heart, if I thought my grandkids were in danger of neglect and I was being refused access, I would kick the door down, yes the Police would come, and I'd kick up such a fuss.
Maybe then the authorities would see with their own eyes the devastation and mess before them... And to hell with the consequences for me. Children come first.

Absolutely agree, Nanicky. Well done for saying so. Too many people just think the best of people which is all well and good but, in some cases such as this one, gut instinct and action is what's needed.

Taking care of one small child is difficult enough. How she managed with four is hard to imagine.
It sounds as though the house was dirty but the boys themselves were not ill-treated. Perhaps that was why she wasn't a priority for social services.
If an animal is deemed to be at risk, the police can force their way in to a house. Shouldn't the same be the case where children are involved?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case, whatever reason this Mum left these young children alone, she has suffered the worst tragedy that could happen to a parent and has to carry with her the guilt of this for the rest of her life.

I feel sorry for her and those sweet children.

Please don't think me harsh. This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned. However, why do people these days expect 'support'?

My mother had 7 children very close together. I'm sure some must have been in nappies at the same time. She had a violent, feckless, alcoholic husband who gave her money when he felt like it. Her family were in another country and she had no friends really in this country. We had no bathroom, an outside toilet, no washing machine. She did it all, alone with no 'support'. This lady made a mistake, never dreaming this would happen. It's awful for all concerned.

Were her very small children ever left alone while she went shopping Kate?

Definitely not. Please don't think I'm being judgemental. People make mistakes but I'm just saying.

I think your mother did her best under very difficult circumstances Kate, from what I’ve read. I suppose most of us do our best, according to our circumstances. I can’t imagine having two sets of twins so close together. My Mum was my absolute rock but not everyone is so lucky.

Yes and the mother of the twins was said to have had mental health issues. I'm sure her life was very difficult.

What she did was terrible but I am in no position to judge her.

This woman spent lockdown on her own with 4 children, suffering with depression and she was losing her sight. She now has no sight.. It does not in any way excuse her leaving them alone locked in a room but I hope she isn't made to suffer more in prison..
Why the hell don't these fathers step up..

It’s amazing who comes out of the woodwork after the event …

Kate1949

Please don't think me harsh. This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned. However, why do people these days expect 'support'?

My mother had 7 children very close together. I'm sure some must have been in nappies at the same time. She had a violent, feckless, alcoholic husband who gave her money when he felt like it. Her family were in another country and she had no friends really in this country. We had no bathroom, an outside toilet, no washing machine. She did it all, alone with no 'support'. This lady made a mistake, never dreaming this would happen. It's awful for all concerned.

Please don't think me harsh. This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned. However, why do people these days expect 'support'?

Do you mean people in general, or just parents - mothers?

Disregarding this particular tragedy, I think people expect support, because it's available. Society has recognised that there are occasions when life - particularly family life or elderly care situations can be too difficult for one person to cope with so decided that there should be support systems to help them. Whether the situation is one of their own-making or not is another matter.

Do you think that's a bad thing?

We know that back in the day, families just had to get on with it because they didn't have such options. I would imagine that there were people - probably mostly women because family burdens usually fall heaviest on their shoulders - who suffered in silence with 'life' gradually wearing down their resilience.

Do you think we'd be better off as a society if there was no support, for any situation, and we all tried to cope as best we could?

Kate1949

Please don't think me harsh. This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned. However, why do people these days expect 'support'?

My mother had 7 children very close together. I'm sure some must have been in nappies at the same time. She had a violent, feckless, alcoholic husband who gave her money when he felt like it. Her family were in another country and she had no friends really in this country. We had no bathroom, an outside toilet, no washing machine. She did it all, alone with no 'support'. This lady made a mistake, never dreaming this would happen. It's awful for all concerned.

Your poor (wonderful) mum!

Cossy

Kate1949

Please don't think me harsh. This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned. However, why do people these days expect 'support'?

My mother had 7 children very close together. I'm sure some must have been in nappies at the same time. She had a violent, feckless, alcoholic husband who gave her money when he felt like it. Her family were in another country and she had no friends really in this country. We had no bathroom, an outside toilet, no washing machine. She did it all, alone with no 'support'. This lady made a mistake, never dreaming this would happen. It's awful for all concerned.

Your poor (wonderful) mum!

completely agree Kate.. what an amazing woman..

No Dickens I don't think it's a bad thing. Of course if people need help and it's there of course the should take it . I wouldn't want any mother to go through what mine did. All of the above plus being beaten, battered and abused regularly. Shee had to cope. There was no help. Maybe not this particular lady but I feel that some ask for help because it is there when may E they don't really need it. I'm probably wrong.

This case needs reviewing by the Home Secretary. It reflects a gross failure of statutory social services.

Certainly a strong local review, I'm not sure of the benefit of a national one. When were the critical points that were missed, what do you do when intervention is refused.

As for prison, I just cant see alternatives in the community - but if only they could offer genuine mental health and rehabilitative programmes, treatment for her eyes.

What is wrong with Rose's eyes?

It cannot have been poor eyesight which resulted in the house being so filthy with a mattress, a door on the stairs etc, faeces around the place.
She managed to walk to the supermarket, buy unnecessary items and home again. She obviously had MH issues and was good at covering up the problems she was having but all the more reason for alarm and the authorities to insist on ensuring four small children were safe.

I'm not surprised that some people on Mumsnet are blaming the grandparents, it is the usual thing that happens on MN, grandparents are damned and villified if they interfere, are uncaring if they do not. Of course they will shift blame.