The NHS will test all children who believe they are transgender for autism under new plans seen by The Telegraph.

valdavi

If the issue is that people don't want to conform to gender stereotypes, I can't understand why the incidence of gender dysphoria is so much greater now, when you can dress how you want, openly love who you want, do the job you choose, than in the past.
Maybe it is somehow linked to autism, which has definitely increased more than can be explained by better recognition.Or maybe some of these teenagers are just going through phases / it's cool now.

With some people, it's not just the gender stereotypes & the way their mind works - they long to be in a female / male body, even to the point of self-mutilation. It is unfair to deny these young people access to gender dysphoria services, just because trans rights have been pushed to an extreme (absurd?) point recently. This feels like a backlash.

If only your first paragraph were true. It isn't. In fact life was simpler when it was male/female and nothing else, now it is be what you like in rpinciple but not in practice.

You only have to hear the stories of those who are trans - or gay, or in any way not 'normal' to know the bullying name calling and isolation they suffer. It is more confusing because, like you, Valdavi everyone says you are free to be whatever you want, but if you try to be what ever you want you get hounded.

Also we absolutely have become more wedded to gender stereotypes particularly for girls.

Very sensible to assess for autism in apparently transgender children and young people. In my work with adults with autism I met many who wanted to be a different gender or none.
There were two reasons behind this.
1) girls with autism who simply hated the changes that puberty brought. Change being a major stressor for people with autism.
2) people who always thought life would be different if only eg they lived elsewhere, owned some specific possession etc or were of a different gender. In all cases seen they were disappointed to find that they were still themselves.
A good autism assessment and post diagnostic support would be much more useful than gender reassignment surgery/drugs etc and that would involve. Even just allowing for time to pass and brains to mature would help.

The connection between autism and gender dysphoria is well documented, especially female to male.
So it makes perfect sense to look at this when young people present.
However this makes no sense in the absence of facilities where this can be done.

Galaxy

Also we absolutely have become more wedded to gender stereotypes particularly for girls.

I agree Galaxy.

Female role models for young women & girls today are incredibly ‘stereotypically female’.

You only need to look at the ‘influencers’ (hate that word) on SM to see the image of what female ‘should be’ today. Like it or not, many women & girls now aspire to fit this mould.

Girls are being put into boxes and anyone who looks different, even to the extent of having short hair (!), is virtually outcast.

So sad!

I agree Luckygirl.

Wyllow3

I really disagree.

I support the Cass report which has set up two centres for young people expressing gender dysphoria. These stand alongside local CAMHS.

Waiting lists are no shorter - they are long for both CAMHS and the Cass clinics. (and the adult clinics from 18)

The Gender clinics take exactly the holistic approach described above, with much needed specific expertise in working with the whole range of young people from those who are autistic or have other neurodevelopment on the one hand,

and those who are not "mentally ill", don't need CAMHS but face difficult choices ahead time to think and support until they are 18 and can register at an adult gender clinic.

There are 8 Adult Gender Clinics around the country and in these discussions can continue and treatment if it's the right way ahead.

Again, they are holistic, people may make choices to make no changes, to do what Oreo says,

for both teenage and adult clinics to support people taking their time and it being OK to be unsure and this is surely a valuable part of what the NHS can offer.

Pulling out of gender dysphoria means a two tier society with those who can afford help/treatment going ahead with possibly dodgy clinics who don't have this holistic approach and is just out to make money.

But ultimately, yes, I think the NHS should pay for meds or surgery where it's appropriate.

It seems to me that the O/P is suggesting that genuine gender dysphoria either doesnt exist or that people shouldn't get our societies support.

I agree completely and I also think it needs to be acknowledged that puberty can be a very confusing and difficult time for many teens and that ALL and ANY decisions around gender or indeed sexuality need to be deferred until early 20’s, with the young person/people given the holistic support to try and understand what is happening.

LizzieDrip, spot on.

I think malign influence of schools teaching gender identity as fact has to be stamped out as quickly as possible.

Stonewall got involved and the world went mad for a bit.

I do agree about the apparent increase in stereotypical definitions of what you should be as a girl as regards looks. Does this extend into what jobs and roles women should have access to however? I do hope not.

Cossy in terms of medical intervention (decisions to take drugs, operations) early 20's is the reality because you cant register with an NHS gender clinic until you re 18 and the waiting lists bring you into the early 20's.

Of course anyone at any point can decide to "live like" a girl/women and the importance of having gender clinics and a holistic approach for teenagers is to make sure that this choice is wise and not the only one.

(We cant control the activities of private clinics which may not be holistic)

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I think malign influence of schools teaching gender identity as fact has to be stamped out as quickly as possible.

Stonewall got involved and the world went mad for a bit.

Do schools still do this? Strong guidance was given against it in 2024
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-69017920#:~:text=But%20the%20updated%20guidance%20makes,a%20spectrum%22%20should%20be%20avoided.

Schools do have to decide how to best support both gay children and those children who want to change their gender and issues may well come up where children want to discuss it, the importance lies in how its dealt with. My 40 yr old friend who has teenagers at school sayer children's school deals with it with in a low key way but try to ensure bullying doesnt take place.

Since its out there in social media it has to be dealt with not "never mentioned" its all about how its done.

Thinking of the gender stereotype issue - we have the likes of Tate and co pushing on boys what they should be and its very misogyistic - if the TV series "Adolescence" is anything to go by its a terribly regrettable step back from where we were where both boys and girls didnt have to conform. Its been suggested that this should be shown and discussed in schools.

It does seem that autism feeds into feeling profoundly uncomfortable with themselves and many develop all-consuming and unhealthy obsessions. The link between autism and gender dysphoria has been well-known for a while now - however it’s now being openly discussed much more.

Hopefully soon an acceptable way through this awful minefield will be found. 🤞

Well indeed, FGT, of course.

Wyllow3

Thinking of the gender stereotype issue - we have the likes of Tate and co pushing on boys what they should be and its very misogyistic - if the TV series "Adolescence" is anything to go by its a terribly regrettable step back from where we were where both boys and girls didnt have to conform. Its been suggested that this should be shown and discussed in schools.

I agree Wyllow.

We appear to be living in an age where stereotypical gender conformity for both male & female is growing at pace.

Individuality, particularly in terms of appearance, seems even less acceptable now than a few decades ago.

In relation to careers chosen by females, here’s an interesting piece of research. It shows that, despite many initiatives to encourage females to enter STEM careers, the percentages are still far lower than for males. It seems that gender stereotypes play a large part in this.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/12/04/the-gender-gap-in-stem/

One of the mums in my social group has 4 children; 3 independent adults, 1 teenager. Teenager is diagnosed autistic with ADHD and has always struggled socially with finding and keeping friends; as Liz says "he's never been able to find his tribe". He's an academically gifted lad; straight As and got his first choice of university. First few months at uni were very difficult for him; he was well out of his comfort zone, was lonely and kept asking to come home. But, as if by magic, he suddenly settled down; said he'd been befriended by a group on campus who included him and didn't make him feel "different". When he came home for Christmas vacation, it was obvious that he wasn't taking his medication, something he'd always been meticulous about; his behaviour was all over the place, not able to settle to anything and it was clear that, without his ADHD medication, he wasn’t making much sense. During a particularly loud and angry outburst he revealed that he hadn't been taking his medication for weeks because, according to his new uni friends, he isn't, and never was, autistic or had ADHD. What his real problem was was that he was actually a trans woman but had never realised it until he met his friends who had pointed it out to him. They were the LGBTQ group. He insisted that his Christian name was now his "deadname" and he was now to be known as "Jenny" and if they called him anything else, he'd never come home again.

Liz knows that her son isn't trans gender; he's lonely, looking for friends who accept his quirks and oddities and stop him from always feeling like a square peg in a round hole. And the LGBTQ fitted that gap. On the advice of his friends, he refuses to see or speak with any medic because "they'll try to convince you that you're autistic and ADHD again and put you back on medication you don't need". What he has done is, with help from his friends, found an online supplier of Finasteride and testosterone blockers; no prescription, no questions asked. He's also travelled to Poland to buy them directly from a supplier. Liz is distraught with worry and fear for what damage he's doing to his health but doesn't know where to turn to. The university pastoral care is "sympathetic but, as he's 18, he's legally an adult and they can only offer support if he approaches them". He won't do that; he's just so delighted that he's finally found a circle of friends who accept him. He hasn't been home since Christmas and only phones to ask for more money for his drugs.

Carlotta
The behaviour of the group that is “helping him to fit in” sounds exactly like the actions faced by my DGD from a girl who decided she was a boy, gathered a group of acolytes and bullied the hell out of anyone who didn’t join in with the
breast binding,
change your name,
let’s stop the girls using the boy’s toilets, (girls’school)
demand punishment for anyone you hear referring to you as she or you wrong name,
Suffer from transphobic parents,
“stand up for your right to have surgery”
etc.^ group.
Whilst anyone who did join was welcomed, encouraged to do all those things.
Worth noting that the ringleader promoted all those, but only did the name change/pronoun and block the girls from using the toilets. Her parents were evidently sooo understanding.

Sadly that sounds only too familiar Carlotta

Scary Carlotta to read that.
I hope Liz isn’t sending money to her boy.

Macadia

This is a very interesting discussion topic. Gender seems to be a spectrum. All humans are presumed female until their 5th or 6th week in the womb when their chromosomes force them into males (I'm not a biologist or educated so I'm just guessing). Could it be that something occurs during that time period that doesn't develop commonly? I am writing this as a parent to an autistic child.

The ability to say you don't know is one we should rate more highly, Macadia. The Dunning-Kruger effect (sometimes called confident ignorance) seems to be stearing the world at the moment. I followed up on your comments and found this.

During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; that is, all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically [what you can see] female. After approximately 6 to 7 weeks of gestation, however, the expression of a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that result in the development of the testes.

None of us are born "perfect" but most "imperfections" are small and don't affect our lives. I am a lone twin: my twin died shortly after birth. There was no treatment for spina bifida and hydrocephalus in those days. That was a catastrophic defect and we must all have come across others, small and large, so why deny there may be some that as yet we know little about?

PoliticsNerd
so why deny there may be some that as yet we know little about

Who’s doing that? I must have missed it. Could you indicate where it happened?

As long as ‘knowing little about’ isn’t used to deny what we do know.

Such a passive aggressive, sneering post PoliticNerd; quite ironic that you reference confident ignorance whilst missing your own mistakes.

In utero development has nothing whatsoever to do with 'gender' and everything to do with sex.

Of course all embryos have female characteristics (which is why men have nipples), but that is normal development, and by the time the baby is born it has a sex.

As long as ‘knowing little about’ isn’t used to deny what we do know.

And what's that Mollygo? What do you "know"?

Doodledog

In utero development has nothing whatsoever to do with 'gender' and everything to do with sex.

Of course all embryos have female characteristics (which is why men have nipples), but that is normal development, and by the time the baby is born it has a sex.

So why Doodledog, do some embryos have a fault in the development of the spinal cord which leaves a gap or split in the spine. And why, if that can happen, can't any expected development be interpreted or flawed?