Is intolerance getting worse on GN?

Iam64

Much maligned in your view, not in the view of others. Free to chose of course

I wonder if his words were more of a warning of what could happen? Wasn't he worried about lack of integration possibly causing tensions?

I don't really remember (we could have been overseas at the time, was if 1968?) but know there was a lot of controversy.

merlotgran

I missed the deleted post. That’s what comes of trying to watch an Aussie crime drama, read an English crime drama and follow a thread on Gransnet all at the same time!

I didn't watch the Aussie crime drama, as I downloaded the book ages ago but haven't read it yet.
Is it worth watching?

Is it worth watching?

I can’t make up my mind. He’s easy on the eye though. 😂

I'll take a look.
Oh yes, I've seen him in something else.

Maggiemaybe

If you disliked the song, Wyllow, just imagine how I felt on the more than one occasion when someone who didn’t pay attention to lyrics dedicated it to me at a disco. I’d be in my late teens, and absolutely drop dead gorgeous (of course ).

Just realised the subtle nature of this post, Maggiemaybe
Nice one [grin}

MaizieD

^Perhaps people have too much time in their hands?^

Oh dear, GG13. That sounds dangerously akin to 'get a life' (though I know you didn't mean it pejoratively).

It's a delightfully cool and slightly breezy 18 degrees (how do you get the superscript 'o' ?) here in Durham this morning.

Do wave to my son as he passes by your way

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Doodledog

Oh, I'm sure we all do - anyone who put pop stars' political allegiances at the top of their list of things to worry about would be very strange.

It doesn't mean that knowing what he's really like sits well, though.

Do you or any other posters on here ask what a persons political allegiances are on first meeting them?

Do you or any other posters on GN only have friends whose political affiliations are the same as yours?

I can only speak for myself but the three girlfriends I have been friends with (I suppose they should be called women friends) for 52, 45 and 30 years, all have different political views and affiliations, none of which align with mine.

I find that people I meet often slip anti immigration comments into a conversation ( it happened with someone that was doing some work on my house the other week). And I’ve pointed out in the past that the odd job man I use ( and unfortunately depend upon) does the same. Someone in my dog walking group called coloured people darkies. No idea how he managed to get that into the conversation but I got thrown out of the group when I eventually lost my temper about his racist comments. When I still worked people in the waiting room used to go on about foreigners. Same thing happened when I used to go to the sauna at my gym, so I started going in the evening when there was a younger age group.

Yes: it's shocking, and I would not want to have anymore than necessary conversation in as benign as way as possible with them. But if pressed, I would tell them what I thought calmly. There are limits to this accepting everyone.

Allira

^Wonder if anyone here also supported Powell's dreams for Great Britain.^

I expect many were at infant school.

Oh, I was well aware of his "rivers of blood speech" and appalled, as my parents and chosen friends were.

Utterly nasty piece of work however many redeeming features he might have had, like - oh I don't know... being kind to his dog?

Powell made his 'rivers of blood" speech on 20 April 1968.
I was 17, not yet at uni, so it's my parents and all the people we knew then, my mother and fathers political and social friends, Quakers, father's colleagues because of the nature of his work (in multi cultural setting where he came across such types as described by Maybee

merlotgran the pluses and minuses of multi tasking

Allira

Iam64

Much maligned in your view, not in the view of others. Free to chose of course

I wonder if his words were more of a warning of what could happen? Wasn't he worried about lack of integration possibly causing tensions?

I don't really remember (we could have been overseas at the time, was if 1968?) but know there was a lot of controversy.

Powell believed some immigrants wanted integration but others wanted to cause dissent. He saw the end of Empire as the end of any responsibility towards the inhabitants of the countries previously part of the British Empire. He is largely. Viewed as a man with racist beliefs.

I expect many people will say his opinions were correct. I saw him as a classic supporter of Empire with no ability to analyse or accept its contribution to the numbers of people from former commonwealth countries settling in the UK

Thanks Primrose I knew the quote was from a book but couldn’t remember which one😃 amazing that I got it almost right considering the heat and humidity yesterday.

iam64

Cut him in half and he had British empire right through him. I think he would have a lot in common with the white supremicists. In USA .

For posters who are prepared to read a parliamentary committee report in great detail, this reference shows how horrifyingly insidious in so many ways enoch Powells call to action was. it truly is worth a read, and is fair, inasmuch as it truly does present the different points of view on immigration.

I think a few here might really be interested especially as I say, it gives the anti-immigration POV as well. It focuses on Powell kicking off the whole debate as of course he was referring to the Windrush generation and the scandal caused when it was attempted to round up elderly citizens from the West Indies who had not gone ahead and paid out/could not afford to pay out for citizenship (despite of course, us asking them to come to work in job shortages in the UK.

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/12263/html

Iam64

Allira

Iam64

Much maligned in your view, not in the view of others. Free to chose of course

I wonder if his words were more of a warning of what could happen? Wasn't he worried about lack of integration possibly causing tensions?

I don't really remember (we could have been overseas at the time, was if 1968?) but know there was a lot of controversy.

Powell believed some immigrants wanted integration but others wanted to cause dissent. He saw the end of Empire as the end of any responsibility towards the inhabitants of the countries previously part of the British Empire. He is largely. Viewed as a man with racist beliefs.

I expect many people will say his opinions were correct. I saw him as a classic supporter of Empire with no ability to analyse or accept its contribution to the numbers of people from former commonwealth countries settling in the UK

Powell believed some immigrants wanted integration but others wanted to cause dissent.
Interesting thought, though. I've found over years that our Indian friends and neighbour in particular, wherever they are from, have been keen to integrate.

neighbours plural.

I live near Leicester and we are friends with people of all nationalities but there are large areas near the city where no integration is apparent and there are regular fights between different nationalities

And, I am sometimes shocked to see small children translating for their youngish parents.

My closest neighbours are from Pakistan, they still have a home there. The children are westernised, the parents not so.

Our AC have Asian friends, the males are out and about, the women are not. One allows his wife to work, the others only go out to take children to and from school.

They all went home for arranged marriages and jumped through hoops to get their wives here.

Integration is a problem in some areas, no idea what the solution is 🤷‍♀️

The parents who are immigrants, then the children, but does anyone have any stats or info on how the grandchildren integrate? Maybe it just takes time. Some of you may know.

I think integration is very variable, the nearest small town to me is a UK army Gurkha base, and many of the soldiers opt to remain here after they complete active service, so we have all ages here. They are (both sexes) great contributors to the community, and their wives and children are often employed in local businesses, so they are very well integrated, whilst still maintaining their own traditions. It works really well for everybody I think.

"Integration is a problem in some areas, no idea what the solution is"

Marrying out of an ethnic enclave imo is the best way of integration, and that does happen with many 2nd and 3rd generations amongst some incomers, my grandfather was one such person who came to this country and married my English grandmother. No internet then so breaking the ties with the old country was far more absolute. Of course religion does bind some to their particular faith and that often precludes marrying out. When I grew up, being educated at catholic schools we inevitably had many Irish but Italians as well, and kind of old school ones that came from southern Italy and Sicily so steeped in some of their old traditions. For example, went into all black mourning garb when someone in the extended family died. Sometimes the older women in particular didn't learn the language, which kept them isolated. However, from what I gather the next generation, my peer group, threw off those shackles and just became English, so the only vestiges left were their Italian names, Italian food and hopefully they kept their wonderful language going. The contrary factor with some of those from the Indian sub continent from what I've read, is that the elders who came here in the '70s were possibly more assimilated as far as dress and customs, most notably the older women didn't wear the burka, or even the veil, but it's their younger generation who have embraced a hard line in the way they have turned to a more extreme version of their religion, and they would more likely to have been born and raised in this country which is puzzling.

Having said that, of course there are Britons who rock up in Spain and then make no attempt to learn the language or ingratiate themselves into their local community. Apologies for a bit of digression but talking of Spain, why do they put up with all these foreign gangsters? some are British and Irish who blight certain areas of their country, there was a recent gang shoot out around Marbella just wondering why some places are such meccas for crime? Why would any country want to import foreign criminal gangs?

We import foreign criminal gangs here too. Drug runners, prostitution, gun crime all are linked to immigration from certain countries. So it’s not just the Spanish.

Oh I know imported criminal activities are pretty universal these days unfortunately.

Cut him in half and he had British empire right through him. I think he would have a lot in common with the white supremicists. In USA .

Not true.
I did know him.
Extremely intellectual, academic, well able to analyse, but also able to relate to his constituents, all of them., and a man of courage.

eazybee

^Cut him in half and he had British empire right through him. I think he would have a lot in common with the white supremicists. In USA .^

Not true.
I did know him.
Extremely intellectual, academic, well able to analyse, but also able to relate to his constituents, all of them., and a man of courage.

There was far more to him than just that one speech, which is all that most people remember of him, if they remember him at all.