Goodbye Duke & Duchess of York.

When in a hole, ronib.

Smileless2012

For goodness sake Essexgirl; you read somewhere a while back ...... !!!

😂

What hole? Allira

Have you heard the accusations in the Guiffre book? It was after hearing them that I posted that he must simply leave the country. They should go to America and never be heard from again.

From what I read, there is a whole lot more to it than PA's sexual adventures and his association with Epstein.

He has let the UK down badly as a representative and many of his business dealings were conducted unwisely to put it kindly.

Then there is the enormous amount of public money he and SF spent on themselves and their lavish lifestyle.

I'm sure he has enough tucked away by now to fund a comfortable lifestyle for himself, his ex-wife and the dogs.
If he can curb her spending.

Far more than most of us can dream of.

Do you have friend or family relationships with men who ‘use/need the services of prostitutes’ ronib?
I know these men because of my work with their victims.

I’m with Allira in finding your suggestion that my father might have paid for sex. I am totally confident neither my father, or my husband would do thst.

I’m not sure what point you’re attempting to make. Is it that most men are like PAndrew, without a moral compass.

what I don't understand is why Andrew paid all that money without having a gagging order - who advised him it was a good deal?

I don't understand why he should have to move if he's paying the rent.
He has a 75 year lease apparently.

Iam64 this is getting out of hand. Men who pay prostitutes are very unlikely, one hopes, to go around advertising the fact to their own families. At the end of the day, surprisingly it is not illegal to pay for sex.
This holier than thou attitude that somehow overlooks that some men have a basic need for sex seems to be overlooked. Of course prostitution is not an ideal solution. But it is legally available. And of course it is not an ideal job choice for women.

Nano14

winterwhite

Yes, ferry23, you’re right but I didn’t think that Andrew had been accused of procuring and trafficking. It’s plausible that he didn’t realise it was happening. He doesn’t appear to be a deep thinker.
I don’t question the seriousness of Epstein’s convictions , of course I don’t, I just wonder whether Andrew is paying an excessively high price for his own degree of involvement because he is already unpopular and disliked for other reasons.

I agree, although I'd describe him as an arrogant, egotistical, vain, sleazebag, I doubt that he knew what was going on behind the scenes. I certainly wouldn't describe him as a paedophile, on the evidence we've heard. I think if there were more to it, younger girls would have come out by now and spoken up about it. Especially after the payout that Virginia Giuffre received.

Most of the abused women at Epstein's trial chose to remain anonymous, quite understandably. The youngest victims of his abuse were 14 years old. Virginia Guiffre waived her right to anonymity. Maybe if she hadn't shed be alive today.

He's too thick to know he's thick. So, very gullible (possibly believed the girls really loved him too). But now is a loose canon and demonstrable liar. Needs to be ignored for the foreseeable. Amusing the way he thought he could get away with silly stuff like I don't know her, I don't sweat etc - bit of a buffoon.

Iam64 Mon 20-Oct-25 16:17:38
Do you have friend or family relationships with men who ‘use/need the services of prostitutes’ ronib?
I know these men because of my work with their victims.

I’m with Allira in finding your suggestion that my father might have paid for sex. I am totally confident neither my father, or my husband would do thst.

I’m not sure what point you’re attempting to make. Is it that most men are like PAndrew, without a moral compass.

Fact, there some men who need to spend time with prostitute , not the majority but definitely some.

I can confirm. Prince Andrew has always been arrogant and entitled. We had friends in the navy when he was serving, he was not popular for just those reasons, plus of course, it is not so much that he is stupid, that is hardly his fault, but what was his fault is that he would not learn. This is very different to Prince Harry, who was liked and respected by those working under his command and who learned alongside him.

Being stupid, arrogant and entitled does not preclude someone also being brave and courageous when faced with danger, and there is no doubt that both princes, Andrew and Harry, showed considerable courage when faced with danger.

Fact, there some men who need to spend time with prostitute , not the majority but definitely some.

We know, Anniebach.

Neither Iam64 nor I are naive,

However, it is the constant assertion by ronib that our menfolk presumably paid prostitutes for sex which is offensive.

If she wishes to speak for her own family, fair enough.

No not your menfolk personally. How would I suggest that not knowing your menfolk in particular? If you refuse to understand the point about privacy/non disclosure then there’s nothing more to add. We simply don’t know.
Allira

Did 'your menfolk' have sex at an orgy with 8 underage girls? Andrew did.

I don’t know- they wouldn’t tell me if they had. It’s not the sort of topic we discuss…. In fact I don’t go around asking. It isn’t my business….. is it yours? If so, why? Aveline

ronib

I don’t know- they wouldn’t tell me if they had. It’s not the sort of topic we discuss…. In fact I don’t go around asking. It isn’t my business….. is it yours? If so, why? Aveline

Wow. Just wow. Not any of your business, are you seriously suggesting you neither know nor care if “your menfolk had sex at an orgy with eight underage girls “.

There’s no point attempting to discuss why that statement causes concern

Fact, there some men who need to spend time with prostitute , not the majority but definitely some

Dear lord, I cannot believe what I’m reading - that women are mere lumps of meat put on this earth to satisfy men’s needs. If men’s sexual needs are so imperative, how come a woman (or man) isn’t available to them on prescription?

ronib

No not your menfolk personally. How would I suggest that not knowing your menfolk in particular? If you refuse to understand the point about privacy/non disclosure then there’s nothing more to add. We simply don’t know.
Allira

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about ronib. I'm baffled as to what you're contributing to this thread in terms of both balance and relevance.

You've argued about the authenticity and value of a book written by an eminent author and historian and then told us you haven't read the book and don't intend to do so.

You've sought to diminish the value of post graduate degrees awarded by world class, prestigious and well respected universities and yet cannot back up your claims other than saying you "know people with PhD's".

You've started a rather nonsensical conversation about prostitution that really isn't relevant here.

You seem to fall into the category of those who will attempt at all costs to disprove a hypothesis or fight to manouevre the conversation into something that will support your own agenda or opinion.

What exactly is it you're trying to say in relation to the subject of the thread?

Basically if Prince Andrew had paid sex, who on earth are we to criticise?

ronib

Basically if Prince Andrew had paid sex, who on earth are we to criticise?

We are mothers, grandmothers, feminists…….who abhor sexual abuse and manipulation of underage girls. And Andrew is meant to be a respected member of an elite family.

Thank you LucyAnna5. I hope ronib doesn’t understand the enormity of her statements

It's not about paid sex. It's about procuring, manipulating and trafficking vulnerable young girls over a sustained period of time and the sexual abuse of vulnerable and often underage girls.

And it's about people who are held in high regard who have taken part in the sordid and depraved world of Epstein and Maxwell.