An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

You know what holding a different view doesn't give people the right to call people arrogant. It is really unpleasant behaviour.

We need to be able to tell the difference between coercion, control and choice and to give all women, all people, that choice.

Wyllow3

starnded

The arrogance is stunning really.

Leave people alone.

Yup, as individuals in our society right here right now.

Not so of course as regards where there is abuse from individuals or society as a whole.

Lots of covert racism in here, because for example some forms of Christianity and Jewish organisations have women who choose to cover their hair and wear modest or plain clothing - or are nuns, but somehow escape mention here.

It's called choice, Wyllow.

Some are denied that choice.

starnded

The arrogance is stunning really.

Leave people alone.

I think you are missing the point.

^ and wore a burqa when travelling into three dangerous for women areas .^

That bit stands out for me

Galaxy

Lots of covert misogyny in many posts and complete lack of understanding of oppression of women.

I am surprised. And alarmed too.

And dare I mention feminism?

"She suggests the wearing of the burqa encourages Muslim men to assume that women from other cultures are sexually available"
Very interesting point of view which may well be correct especially considering the increasing number of attacks from foreigners on non burqa wearers.
I think a lot of burqa wearers are more than happy to wear one and are not being controlled. In the ideal world we should all be allowed to wear what we like BUT what about security/terrorist matters at airports etc when faces can't be identified?

Coercion is always wrong.

No matter which direction

Wyllow3

I'm about to start as a volunteer for women locally who have been abused. leading a group who want to do some art or some yoga. (yes, for real, it was a decision based on the marriage not the recent attack)

I shall not and never would start asking anyone who arrives in a burka to remove there face covering

Just to please some racist GN's, becuase thats what it is, imo:

We've read posts above on page 1 about what Muslim women have themselves to say and how some have made a choice:

obviously if its done under male pressure its abuse here or abroad I would fight it all the way:

but banning it is counter productive in terms of change, gradual being able to "let it go" is the way forward and

not accepting a minority of womens choices in our supposedly tolerant UK goes against everything I believe in.

What a very rude comment?
Calling GNers racist just because they would like to see Muslim women liberated from a really restrictive medieval form of dress!

Nuns *choose to dress the way they do, but many nuns do adopt a more informal garb these days.It’s men from certain cultures now living in the UK that insist their wives are muffled from head to toe. It’s disgraceful.

I think women are judged whatever background they are from on what they wear. From Rayner’s trouser suit to the Queen’s head wear when meeting the Pope, whereas men get a hall pass. Muslim women who don’t want to wear a covering could be judged by their communities or ruling authorities in some Muslim countries and those who wear it in western countries are judged for wearing a covering. Perhaps being a bit less judgy is the best way to be, leaving sartorial decisions to the women themselves, with the hope that like many Muslim women around the world prepared to challenge the status quo, they will do what is right for them.

It’s very hard for Muslim women to challenge the status quo.
And quite apart from liberating women I don’t think we should allow anyone totally covered up to work in our society or go into banks and shops.It would be very easy to simply ban it altogether.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be liberating for women to be made to stay at home because rules forbid them to go out 'covered'.
It's a very delicate balance.

Maremia

On the other hand, it wouldn't be liberating for women to be made to stay at home because rules forbid them to go out 'covered'.
It's a very delicate balance.

Which I've interpreted as there is a gap there. That gap includes:
- widespread/very widespread information on how women can get a divorce if need be (including if it's not our normal legal type of marriage)

- help to escape a man who is trying to trap them within his idea of a marriage (admits I've no idea myself just how many Womens Refuges we've got in the country currently)

- confidence-building lessons in women young enough to still be at school - (which is something that would be useful to all women in fact) on their rights etc within relationships.

I guess there's always the possibility that a "trapped" woman would find "her husband trapping her in her own home" to be the final thing she needed to break free from him and I think we'd all understand just why she'd left him if he tried to do that to her.

Sago I think that you are absolutely correct that religions that dictate " cover-up" effectively divide women into "good" and "bad" women , the latter being sexually available when the " covered" women are available only within the strict sexual mores of their own cultures.
A regrettable feature of these practices but unfortunately IMO an accurate one.

It’s very hard for Muslim women to challenge the status quo

Extraordinary, you can speak for all females of this faith. Every single, solitary one of them.

Amazing knowledge.

starnded

*It’s very hard for Muslim women to challenge the status quo*

Extraordinary, you can speak for all females of this faith. Every single, solitary one of them.

Amazing knowledge.

I agree.
Many Muslim women in the UK today have to notch careers and are by no means subservient to anyone, they constantly challenge the status quo by proving that Muslim women can be independent and successful. Am not sure if anyone actually watches PMQs but if they do they will see a sizeable number of MPs in the HoC and at least one Minister who are Muslim women.

Oreo

Wyllow3

I'm about to start as a volunteer for women locally who have been abused. leading a group who want to do some art or some yoga. (yes, for real, it was a decision based on the marriage not the recent attack)

I shall not and never would start asking anyone who arrives in a burka to remove there face covering

Just to please some racist GN's, becuase thats what it is, imo:

We've read posts above on page 1 about what Muslim women have themselves to say and how some have made a choice:

obviously if its done under male pressure its abuse here or abroad I would fight it all the way:

but banning it is counter productive in terms of change, gradual being able to "let it go" is the way forward and

not accepting a minority of womens choices in our supposedly tolerant UK goes against everything I believe in.

What a very rude comment?
Calling GNers racist just because they would like to see Muslim women liberated from a really restrictive medieval form of dress!

Correct Oreo. It is a very rude and nasty comment.

Calling other GNers racist (or anybody else actually) is what the Left do when they know they are losing the argument. It is thrown around so much now that it’s meaningless and most people realise this and stop doing it.

It's an odd comment and not relevant because it is not to do with race.

It's not a requirement of a religion either, it is cultural.

starnded

*It’s very hard for Muslim women to challenge the status quo*

Extraordinary, you can speak for all females of this faith. Every single, solitary one of them.

Amazing knowledge.

starned You are wrong. Oreo did not say that all muslim women, simply 'muslim women' a generalisation that because it lacks the all important all implicitly assumes that there will be variation within the group, but not much.

Any Muslim woman with ‘a top notch career’ wouldn’t be wearing a burqa in the UK, or probably anywhere else.
The women who go out in a burqa are required to do that by their husbands, or Fathers or brothers as it’s the done thing wherever they came from.
We’re discussing the burqa not Muslim women who wear a headscarf or Western dress.

hollysteers

France has had legislation against the wearing of face coverings and the burqa in public places since 2011 and I’m with them on that.

Me too.
Sensible France.

No protests just compliance.

No protests is quite unlike the French

Galaxy

No protests is quite unlike the French

Thanks Galaxy, this made me smile. A relief after catching up on this thread.