David and Tristan Tate and their “supporters”

keepingquiet

I think most of our young women are prefectly aware of these things and equally give them less credence than we seem to think they do...

I wonder how many of us actaully speak to our GC about these things?

This is completely out of touch and unsupported by reality. These “influencers” have tens of millions of followers and are now becoming politically connected. The Tate brothers have deep ties to the Trump administration and have earned millions by preying on impressionable minds. To downplay the danger is to thinly veil support for them. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtains”. No, we ARE paying attention and more people need to in order to counteract the danger. Willful ignorance never sold one problem on Earth.

Ultimately, the best way for parents to protect their youth from these very popular monsters is to parent their sons properly. The Tates and their ilk thrive because lazy parents let their teens have unfettered, unfiltered internet access and don’t talk enough to their sons and daughters about the dangers of following grifters online. The very concept of being a “follower” is somehow becoming normalized. The last thing this planet can afford is more loud mouth insecure men telling young women where their “place” is, and young men thinking they can control and restrict the freedoms of women. On top of that, nearly all of them are racists as well. These “men” are teaching boys to become predators. Awareness is the weapon against them.

*solved one problem

Cossy what has Farage got to do with anything?

Monica. well said. I agree with you entirely.

The link between the Tate brothers and Mr Trump is yet another disturbing fact about the Potus. I read he wanted to pardon them?

The Tate Brothers are real sick and toxic. Their hatred of women is breathtaking and other men really look up to them.

I detest the term 'toxic masculinity' - as the mother of four fine sons it makes me angry. Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men - such as fancying women! A young man I know was falsely accused of rape, seized from his family home in front of young niece and nephew, detained in great discomfort for a day, then released with no charge because the girl admitted she just made it up because she was afraid of upsetting someone else and wanted an excuse. There was no come-back on the girl, and this is because if there were to be a 'come back' then women would be afraid to come forward! An incident like this traumatises a young man and can ruin his life because people inevitably say 'There's no smoke without fire.' Algorithms discriminate against the white, heterosexual male. There is no fairness in this, many young men feel stymied and powerless and prefer to stay in front of their computers rather than risk the 'dating scene.' It is in this state of unfairness that psychopaths like the Tates find interest and support. Rather than blame the Tates and go on and on about toxic masculinity and violence against women, we should look at the whole picture. We should be working towards less violence EVERYWHERE, fairness EVERYWHERE, and an understanding, maybe, about what makes men different (are they allowed to be different??) and how their needs and natures can be catered for, rather than demonised.

My daughter has full control of her kids phones, the eldest is nearly 15. He's aware that will the case until he's 16, after that there isn't much she can do. But her boys are fully aware of the Tates and the manosphere, they know what they are and that they're not the kind of people to look up to. They also have a good family around them, kids that get sucked into this kind of thing tend to be vulnerable and easily swayed I that way of thinking, more so if they have unemotional fathers or with a derogatory view towards women. Thankfully my sil isn't scared of emotion, he'll cry in front of his kids, he's far from a toxic man.

It's not just having control over what kids do and see online, it's about educating them, telling them it all exists before they find it themselves, it's having parents that don't feed into the narrative, support form other family members.

The majority of males that get sucked into it don't come from supportive families, they don't have good role models and they often tend to feel lost. The manosphere makes them feel special.

So scary

Im sure most of us have loving, positive relationships with good men in our lives.
I don’t agree that men are demonised, What does “not taught how to be men “ mean? Reading undine’s post reminded me how many rapes and other assaults on women and girls go unreported

undines

I detest the term 'toxic masculinity' - as the mother of four fine sons it makes me angry. Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men - such as fancying women! A young man I know was falsely accused of rape, seized from his family home in front of young niece and nephew, detained in great discomfort for a day, then released with no charge because the girl admitted she just made it up because she was afraid of upsetting someone else and wanted an excuse. There was no come-back on the girl, and this is because if there were to be a 'come back' then women would be afraid to come forward! An incident like this traumatises a young man and can ruin his life because people inevitably say 'There's no smoke without fire.' Algorithms discriminate against the white, heterosexual male. There is no fairness in this, many young men feel stymied and powerless and prefer to stay in front of their computers rather than risk the 'dating scene.' It is in this state of unfairness that psychopaths like the Tates find interest and support. Rather than blame the Tates and go on and on about toxic masculinity and violence against women, we should look at the whole picture. We should be working towards less violence EVERYWHERE, fairness EVERYWHERE, and an understanding, maybe, about what makes men different (are they allowed to be different??) and how their needs and natures can be catered for, rather than demonised.

I am a mother of a son. It doesn’t give me the moral right to minimize this problem. I also raised mine to be a decent human. Too many others didn’t, hence this problem. “Fancying” women does not equal harassment and mistreatment to normal people, so whomever is confused about that is part of the problem. It’s simple: keep your hands to yourself, consent matters at all times, and women aren’t objects or pieces of meat. Women are not property and men aren’t entitled to say and do whatever they want they want to them. Normal men understand this. Normal men “fancy” women and manage to never confuse any of the above.

The amount of women and girls actually raped Vs the amount of men falsely accused is astronomical. No one should shy away from acknowledging and addressing the growing threat of young men and boys being influenced into toxic, predatory treatment of women and girls no matter what.

I am also the mother of a daughters and granddaughters. They do not exist merely for the pleasure of males and they don’t need to coddle or “care for” whatever your concept of a male’s nature is. The fact remains that the vast majority of violence committed in this world is committed by men. If you think the world needs to cow-tow to that, you will stay angry because most young women today won’t allow the clocks to be turned back so far. Good for them!

Peaseblossom

Cossy what has Farage got to do with anything?

The very fact that you need to ask means you simply haven’t made the connection. Farage, like his buddy Trump, feels a woman’s place is behind a man, at home producing babies, doing the housework and “servicing” their husbands.

BlessedArt

I agree! Well said. I have two sons, two daughters, they’ve all been raised exactly the same, all taught to respect each other, all taught basic skills to live independently and taught about sexual consent. Among many other things, they’ve made a ton of mistakes in their lives, but none of them blame anyone but themselves and my sons are not sexual predators.

Perhaps Andrew Lownie will write incisively about the Tate brothers? He pulls no punches and immune to threats of any kind.

Andrew Tate is certainly an interesting subject, Nature or Nurture, father an American chess champion, mother
brought them to live in tough Luton, Kickboxing to
infamy via mysterious means.
He seems to have bypassed regular Rites of Passage,
eschewed the rhythms and responsibilities of marriage
but close to his brother.
Where are his mother and sister in all this?

My Liverpool mate Al who knows about these things,
opined that
“He wouldn’t last two weeks in Liverpool” not because
of the deprivation, gang warfare, implied violence, social
problems of some easily identified areas, but because
Liverpudlians take no prisoners verbally, sorting him
out with personality based putdowns and not standing
listening to his garbled rhetoric.
She reckoned they would send him home in tears.
No one holds a mirror up to him it seems.

I thought this was an interesting take on a mercurial man
which I thought I would share.

He must be fundamentally unhappy and unfulfilled,
certainly not happy and contented, referring to women as bitches
and boasting of his jet plane standing by.

He has said, on his conversion to Islam, that he wanted
a religion that “suited his personality.”
This was so preposterous I choked with laughter,
or “can you hear yourself, Andrew?”

I cannot comment on the sub generational impact and influence as I only know well supported young men. I
think someone upstream said, disenchanted and despairing will heed him whereas critical thinking, supported young men will not.
He lacks humour and good intent.

Candace Owens interviewing said he was polite.
She didn’t however notice how manipulative this was.

He is a malignant Rasputin for our times.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Iam64 good post

BlessedArt, yes, I feel angry too.
I am a mother of a son. It doesn’t give me the moral right to minimize this problem. I also raised mine to be a decent human. Too many others didn’t, hence this problem.
Well said.

And Cossy too 👍

StoneofDestiny

So scary

I thought you might have been hoodwinked by AI. Surely Farage and these headlines were not true. Shockingly and very worryingly you are right and the photo you posted is the genuine article.
Starmer cops it for poor judgement with people but Farage has just trumped (sorry, couldn't resist) with the likes of Trump and the Tate brothers.

@Undines

Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men

That is exactly the false message Tate is selling to his followers.

You're doing his dirty work for him.

BlessedArt

undines

I detest the term 'toxic masculinity' - as the mother of four fine sons it makes me angry. Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men - such as fancying women! A young man I know was falsely accused of rape, seized from his family home in front of young niece and nephew, detained in great discomfort for a day, then released with no charge because the girl admitted she just made it up because she was afraid of upsetting someone else and wanted an excuse. There was no come-back on the girl, and this is because if there were to be a 'come back' then women would be afraid to come forward! An incident like this traumatises a young man and can ruin his life because people inevitably say 'There's no smoke without fire.' Algorithms discriminate against the white, heterosexual male. There is no fairness in this, many young men feel stymied and powerless and prefer to stay in front of their computers rather than risk the 'dating scene.' It is in this state of unfairness that psychopaths like the Tates find interest and support. Rather than blame the Tates and go on and on about toxic masculinity and violence against women, we should look at the whole picture. We should be working towards less violence EVERYWHERE, fairness EVERYWHERE, and an understanding, maybe, about what makes men different (are they allowed to be different??) and how their needs and natures can be catered for, rather than demonised.

I am a mother of a son. It doesn’t give me the moral right to minimize this problem. I also raised mine to be a decent human. Too many others didn’t, hence this problem. “Fancying” women does not equal harassment and mistreatment to normal people, so whomever is confused about that is part of the problem. It’s simple: keep your hands to yourself, consent matters at all times, and women aren’t objects or pieces of meat. Women are not property and men aren’t entitled to say and do whatever they want they want to them. Normal men understand this. Normal men “fancy” women and manage to never confuse any of the above.

The amount of women and girls actually raped Vs the amount of men falsely accused is astronomical. No one should shy away from acknowledging and addressing the growing threat of young men and boys being influenced into toxic, predatory treatment of women and girls no matter what.

I am also the mother of a daughters and granddaughters. They do not exist merely for the pleasure of males and they don’t need to coddle or “care for” whatever your concept of a male’s nature is. The fact remains that the vast majority of violence committed in this world is committed by men. If you think the world needs to cow-tow to that, you will stay angry because most young women today won’t allow the clocks to be turned back so far. Good for them!

I’m not apologising for quoting these two posts.
Thank you Blessed Art for your post.
I don’t share information about women and girls/boys horrifically abused by men but they’re ever present in discussions like this.
I stress again, I loved my husband, I love male friends, grandsons, nephews, sons in law, former colleagues - the list is extensive, That doesn’t mean I feel the need to suggest men are a special case in needing to be taught how to be men, they learn in their families, schools work environments. What matters is what sense they make of it all.

Excellent thought provoking arguments here.

Andrew Tate in discussion with Germaine Greer : mincemeat.

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Those calendars are not the type of vile pornography that is now available on the internet.

The fact those demeaning calendars aren’t adorning office walls these days is thanks to we seventies feminists who spoke out
As Allira says, there’s no comparison with them and the vile pornography sitting in smart phones

Iam64

The fact those demeaning calendars aren’t adorning office walls these days is thanks to we seventies feminists who spoke out
As Allira says, there’s no comparison with them and the vile pornography sitting in smart phones

I worked in Government offices and never saw calendars of that type anywhere! They were seen in garages when I took my car to be serviced and I remember my Mum's friend's son inviting me to climb up to his tree house which was adorned with such calendars. We were ten at the time 😲
I've never climbed down a tree so fast in my life.