David and Tristan Tate and their “supporters”

I always think what losers these men are, terrified of women and behaving like the Big Bad Mouse, who isn't afraid of anything - except women.

They are unable to understand or sustain eual relationships with women, so latch on women and girls who are young, vulnerable, or feed off them. All of them, bullies. and, by definition, cowards at heart.

I think there is a link between these men and incels(men who have never had a girlfriend and blame women for this). They have a shared misogyny, and an obsession with how they look. A beleif that women are attracted to handosme men. This seems to be defined as hyper muscled men who display their bodies. I often think the look they seek is more that that attracts gay men than heterosexual women.

It also flies in the face of all evidence. Look around you at couples, in general, couples in your family, your own partnership. Are any of the people you see muscled up hunks, did they get their wives or female partners because the women just fell for those rippled muscles, thier immaculately cared for faces, or even because they had a sports car or wore designer clothes. With few exceptions the answer would be a resounding 'No'.

These men are just not attractive to women, we look for personality, shared interests, that certain something that none of these men have.

As I said; loosers, bullies and probably in some cases in denial that they may be gay.

It is not my grandson I worry about, it is my granddaughters who are at school with some of these young boys with misogynistic ideas.

Worrying

Maremia

Worrying

🤔

What is?

Theroux doc is on Netflix and it concentrates on young male “influencers” who have been “influenced” by the Tate's, and who themselves make a lot of money online by repeating their (Tates) rhetoric.

This combined with the increasing amount of “trad wives” and rise of popularity of Farage and his gang, many of whom appear to believe we should return to times where wives were considered “property” of their husbands, have no money of their own, were housekeepers, bearers of children and 100% available for their husbands gratification.

This all “bothers” me.

It’s not want I want for my grand children, respect and equality is what we should all appreciate.

Allira

It is not my grandson I worry about, it is my granddaughters who are at school with some of these young boys with misogynistic ideas.

Yes!

Cossy

Allira

It is not my grandson I worry about, it is my granddaughters who are at school with some of these young boys with misogynistic ideas.

Yes!

If it hasn't got an engine and pistons, DGS is not interested!

Worrying, for our DGDs, with these attitudes, that we never had to deal with.

I think most of our young women are prefectly aware of these things and equally give them less credence than we seem to think they do...

I wonder how many of us actaully speak to our GC about these things?

Young women

Young girls are being bullied at school by some of these boys who have misogynistic, disrespectful and quite frankly vile attitudes towards girls and women. Teachers too, are subjected to this.

If they are like this at 13, 14, what will they be like when they become adults?

Yes, we do talk to our DGC and the girls can become distressed by overt and online bullying.

But hasn't bullying always been a feature of life in schools- not that I am condoning it but you seem to be very naive about some golden past where these sort of things never took place.

Young people need the confidence to express their concerns about these things, yes, and maybe in a way these things were never talked about when I was a teenager.

Girls in particular are vulnerable to low-self esteem being tied up with how they look, particularly on-line I agree- but this would be happening without this influence of the Tates and their toxic ideology.

It is a hard path for them to navigate but despite parental worries and anxieties, kids still have these phones and computers, and parents still pay for them.

I’ve seen no one suggesting there was a golden part where misogyny, sexual harassment, pornography and bullying didn’t occur. Some of us see tolerating these things as unhelpful to victims. Perpetrators aren’t well served by their behaviour being normalised.

It’s inevitable that adolescents see a mobile phone as essential. They live busy lives, often at high school a distance from home so mobiles become a necessary means of helping them keep in touch. It’s a very different world they’re navigating. Minimising the risks they face isn’t helpful

Yes, we listen to what the DGD want to tell us.

I don't feel I am minimising the risks to young people so much as minimising the impact that the Tate bros et al have on most of our young people.

Giving them credence and air-time only serves to help their message and not hinder it.

But that's just my take and so I am now out of this discussion.

I don't know a great deal about them until a few months ago .
I had to Google to find out that they are ex -kickboxers,ardent misogynists and anti -semitic .and influencing young men in the US .
Their attitudes about women and Jews is horrendous.
I haven't hear such vile diatribe for about thirty plus years.

Esmay 👍🏻

They are horrible, dangerous men who are negatively influencing boys' views on women. I can see the results in my own grandson. Sometimes I wish the internet had never been invented, even if it meant there was no Gransnet!

butter and jam My memories of the 70's are different from yours. Women didn't have as many opportunities then and nothing much was expected of them but I don't recall the sorts of scenes of groping that you mention. There were "dirty" magazines on the top shelf, topless women in the newspapers, and Miss World but I think the situation is much worse now. It is reported that the pornographic material on the internet is often very demeaning of women and violent. Many women have been influenced to feel so dissatisfied with their appearance now that they have all sorts of invasive procedures to adjust the way they look.

Eloethan is correct to describe the Tates as dangerous men.

Eloethan, I might be wrong but I think butterandjam was quoting and disagreeing with a post from keeping quiet.

Cossy! change your heading, there is no David Tate.

The brothers have a younger sister - now that is an
interesting angle is it not?

Esmay

I don't know a great deal about them until a few months ago .
I had to Google to find out that they are ex -kickboxers,ardent misogynists and anti -semitic .and influencing young men in the US .
Their attitudes about women and Jews is horrendous.
I haven't hear such vile diatribe for about thirty plus years.

Exactly my point and just saying “that’s my take and I’m out…” actually shows how very out of touch some people are, I’m not being rude, but actually many many parents and grandparents actually have zero idea about the level of exposure their dear children/grandchildren actually have once they start secondary school.

We ALL think we do, but I know from my School Governor says, when I was heavily involving in running/arranging both safeguarding training and seminars, along side CEOP (Child Exploitation & Online Protection), back in 2008-2015.

I was horrified by what I learned from even then, now there is such concern there are many organisations who run safety online for children, parents and teachers.

We may all be aware and educated and set up parental controls and trackers on our children’s phones etc. but please believe me when I say not all parents are so responsible and our children often visit their friends on their own from around 12 onwards.

It’s also not at all unusual for teenage children to have many “personas”
One for school, another with friends and yet another for parents and grandparents.

Maybe due to being a rather “naughty” teenager myself, telling my dear parents I was somewhere and being somewhere else, going into bars and drinking, off to
parties and gigs, I’m somewhat more suspicious, but this is an entirely different world our dear grandchildren are living and have been brought up in.

I think those of us who worry about online influencers have every cause to do so.

SORES

Cossy! change your heading, there is no David Tate.

The brothers have a younger sister - now that is an
interesting angle is it not?

Sorry, I know there isn’t, I don’t know how to change it???

Eloethan

They are horrible, dangerous men who are negatively influencing boys' views on women. I can see the results in my own grandson. Sometimes I wish the internet had never been invented, even if it meant there was no Gransnet!

butter and jam My memories of the 70's are different from yours. Women didn't have as many opportunities then and nothing much was expected of them but I don't recall the sorts of scenes of groping that you mention. There were "dirty" magazines on the top shelf, topless women in the newspapers, and Miss World but I think the situation is much worse now. It is reported that the pornographic material on the internet is often very demeaning of women and violent. Many women have been influenced to feel so dissatisfied with their appearance now that they have all sorts of invasive procedures to adjust the way they look.

I think you may have been lucky! I was “groped” in the 70’s by both the owner of a shop where I worked and my friends next door neighbour when we were given a lift somewhere and I sat in the front! In both cases I was around 16 years old!

I got groped and Tehran Airport in 1960 when I was 16. It was one of the baggage handlers as we were transferring to an airport minicoach. One of the male crew was standing behind me, saw what happened and whispered in my ear ^ if it happens again knee him in the balls^

That apart, despite going to a prodominately male technologicsl northern university and working in a predominantly male environment, I had the occasional grab, or smutty joke or remark, but I realised very early on is that the men doing this sort of thing are looking for a reaction, so I never responded in any way. I developed a blank incomprehending stare, and continued as if nothing had happened or been said. I found it so effective I used it on my children when they misbehaved in public. They called it my Paddington stare, after the bear who gave 'good hard stares'

Scary business. These men should be locked up.

butterandjam

@keepingquiet When I grew up in the 70s it was perfectly acceptable to be groped, kissed and more by men at work and in the local pubs.

It absolutely was not acceptable to me or any women/men I knew.

Pornography was everywhere- in the school playground, the local shop, on the TV and in the cinemas, not least to say in our homes through newspapers,books and magazines.

That's nonsense. The nearest thing to porn in 1970 UK newspapers was Page 3 tits. UK TV certainly never broadcast an erect penis let alone places to put it. Even today TV can't broadcast the kind of porn images kids can see on their mobile phones.

You're completely wrong about the Tates influence in everyday life btw; the evidence in boys behaviour to female staff and girls in class is widely reported by schools.

It wasn’t acceptable but it certainly wasn’t frowned upon as much as it is today. I had breasts before I left primary school and lots of boys groped me there. I also remember a lot of porn, usually just magazines hidden under dad’s beds.