Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

Johnson was quite happy to try to illegally close down parliament a while back but for some reason he now doesn't want to make everyone do something that could potentially save thousands of lives.

I support Gagajo. Crisis care by definition requires hard decisions based on the overall good. I don't care to be euthanized, but if a care decision is between me and someone raising a family, I give him my best wishes for a bright future.

We are the one country where our response is expert led. In Italy and Spain their draconian measures have not been effective. What is the point of these measures if they do not work?

The problem with testing is that currently there are not enough test kits and they cannot be manufactured fast enough. That is expected to change in the next few weeks.

Just because one small town manages to contain the disease it doesn't always follow that it will be equally effective when scaled up. How many times in other fields, culling badgers for example , has it been found that while small scale trials are successful, scaled up they are a disaster.

Labaik I'm sorry, I did not realise you did not know why the NT had closed its outside spaces. It closed them because too many people were visiting them so that they were ceasing to be safe places to be in. It is an interesting example of unforeseen consequences. This needs to be remembered with quite a number of the solutions currently flying around.

re NY.It wasn't unforeseen; anyone with just a couple of brain cells could see what would happen.

Oh, and to save MOnica from jumping on me I meant the NT....

Three doctors, aged 30, are ill and on ventilators.

Younger people should not be complacent.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-three-doctors-aged-30-21734594?fbclid=IwAR3O3rqWBKgVIDt9sZ9_PNs-DOdU15jAgOFMfo-_IwHXX56wtG3dFxp-QgM

S. Korea seems to be doing well - it’s been argued because of the extensive testing and tracing. Sounds pretty scientific to me - following WHO guidelines for a pandemic.And our ‘expert advice’ is nowhere near as robust or unproblematic as many think. There is for one a dearth of Public Health expert input at the top level. It will all end in tears.

I have read [and no, before anyone complains, I haven't got the link] that the scientists are all arguing about who's right and who's wrong.

You are right Labaik sadly the vast majority of people in this country have no idea of what ‘science’ means.They think that science is a collection of irrefutable facts with no room for interpretation, assumptions and judgement<sigh>

The sooner the test that discovers if a person ]has become immune, the better. Then immune people can visit sick relatives and more staff can be recruited into hospitals.

Do you know for a fact that we have a dearth of Public Health expert input, suzie?

In Italy I read that those over 60 are given oxygen but ventilators are reserved for younger people. Not something they want to do but they only have so many and an older person may be on one twice as long as a younger one. It is scary times. I know GTec the vaccum company have switched production to make ventilators. They said once set up they could make up to 1000 each day. Another company, I forget who, are designing a ventilator that two people can be put on same machine. Do some hope. Also many retired doctors and nurses have signed up to return to work. Stay home, stay safe.

Legislation to close our borders is going through parliament now. Let us just hope Lord's don't try to delay it.

Corvid 19 is a lonely illness in hospital isolation.

I’d rather not fight for my life for weeks attached to a machine, seeing only the eyes of an exhausted, overworked nurse. Especially if it’s likely that recovery might leave me so frail that I won’t enjoy the additional time I have left.

OH and I have agreed that we will look after each other as best we can, but neither of us want an ambulance called if we become worryingly ill. If it happens I hope I’ll hold my nerve for him, but I’ll be bloody furious if I find myself in the back of an ambulance with a paramedic in a spacesuit.

It isn’t yet known how many additional deaths Corvid19 causes. Many of those who die are already so frail that they were likely to die anyway -just not from Corvid19.

I for one am glad that doctors will save us from lingering deaths and only put us on a ventilator if it’s likely that we will make a decent recovery.

mygrannycanfly your right. I was a nurse and saw people on ventilators it’s hell. You feel like your suffocating so you are sedated and your hands restrained because you try to take the tube out. So sad.

Older people will not get ventilators if there aren’t enough and younger people need them. Probably over 60s or over 65s will not get them. There aren’t enough for everyone, it’s that simple.

Essex59: Does anyone believe what the right wing a Daily Mail has to say?

Please don't believe all what you read, my DD works on a ward here in Lancashire.

An older man died from CV (its now been publicized so I can say that)

Everyone of the staff/Doctors did everything possible to try and save this man, the staff visibly very upset at this mans passing.

Quote from Lancashire Evening Telegraph
"All of Bill’s family have been genuinely overwhelmed by the care and compassion provided by all ELHT staff and we are keen that they know that.

“Nursing care was exemplary. It gives us great comfort that he was not alone and the staff went that extra mile to get to know him before he passed away. We’d like to thank them for that.”

To read above that "older people are considered expendable" made me smile! When you consider that a huge proportion of childcare for working Mums in the UKis carried ou by grandparents, I would have thought that older people are essential!

But that is now....before the NHS is overwhelmed. I can believe that NHS staff give their all, but choices will have to be made. With 43% of over 70s and 70% of over 80s who catch the virus needing critical care that will simply be impossible.

Yes I know what you mean Pikachu and due to the selfish people over the weekend no doubt the figures will rise dramatically, lets hope that all the Hospitals do and can cope.

The majority of people requiring hospital care will be the elderly, the severity rate of the disease increases with age, from small children where it is a tiny proportion, so the hospital problem is mainly an elderly problem. Decisions on who gets ventilators will be between which elderly person gets it.

Alexa
The sooner the test that discovers if a person ]has become immune, the better. Then immune people can visit sick relatives and more staff can be recruited into hospitals

NO! Even if you are immune you can still carry and spread the virus.

Monica my point is it’s easier if the government decides who gets priory for on line shopping - thus cutting down the numbers infested in Tesco during so-called ‘elderly hour’. which is a laugh.