Second waves - dealing with the virus part 2 ??

I agree with you soozie, they were far more proactive than we were. But it just goes to demonstrate that, no matter what is done, this virus will keep recurring and no matter how slowly we try to reduce the precautions. In the meantime, the USA seems to be spiralling out if control with more new cases confirmed now than in the beginning of the outbreak.

growstuff

Chewbacca Flare ups like the one in Gütersloh are probably inevitable, although it seems critics of the company which owns the meat processing plant claim it could have been avoided.

The issue is how it's been handled. The lockdown isn't popular with residents - for obvious reasons - but testing has been made available. People will be able to find out very quickly if they're infected. Extra police have been deployed to the area to make sure people comply with the regulations. Hopefully, it will have been contained and life can go back to normal fairly soon.

I have my doubts whether the UK government would behave as decisively and efficiently in such a situation.

The infection isn't going to go away completely, but it's how it's managed which matters.

To continue the analogy of “it’s not the hand you are dealt, but how you play it” I think!
However- is there a chink of light? I have just read this

HEALTH services are planning for a second wave twice the size of the first, NHS documents suggest.
Papers drawn up by local planners in the South East show they are preparing for a “reasonable worst case scenario” of a second wave, which is 2 and 2.5 times the size of the first outbreak.
Health officials insisted the scenario was for contingency planning only and not based on forecast or other intelligence
Earlier this week, Prof Jenny Harries, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, said that, while she hoped to see a “sustained period of very low infection” ahead, she was more concerned about what would happen in winter.
(Her and me both)
And yesterday Jeremy Hunt, the former health secretary, joined the presidents of the Royal Colleges of Physicians, Surgeons, GPs and Nursing, and the chairman of the British Medical Association saying there was a “real risk” of a second wave

He at least seems to have some idea unlike poor well-meaning, but out of his depth Matt Hancock. As long as we don’t mention it was on his watch the NHS saw some of its most stringent economy measures. .

Why do people still ant to believe that it’s been handled well here? Delusion or what?

want

Well the numbers here in Spain are falling exponentially - yet hairdressers, bars, restaurants, cafes, beaches are all open and are busy! Surely that is cause for optimism?

Hotels will open next week. Flights will be coming in from all over Europe and beyond. The government’s State of Emergency ended at midnight last Saturday.

Many scientists think the C-19 virus is weakening. Treatment options with some drugs are very encouraging.

Life has to get back to normal some time.

Thanks Urmston that's the kind of news we need to hear. Let's hope so otherwise the outlook is very grim for us all.

So is life normal in Spain then Urm? No masks, no restrictions at all ? Your comment on treatment options is overegging the pudding somewhat

The friends I have in Spain aren't back in their schools yet. Possibly because summer hols will start soon.

Which scientists think the Covid-19 virus is weakening? I haven't read anything claiming that.

I thought people in Spain were really worried about all the tourists returning ?

Spain has had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world. That's what we needed in the UK.

I guess abroad they are not back to 'normal' but 'new normal', masks, distancing, etc which is the only way possible to go forward.

I don’t understand the way a hard lockdown is perceived as a wonderful thing when Japan didn’t have one and have less than 1000 dead with a population of 120,000,000.

Nearer to home Sweden didn’t have one, Belgium did and the former have just over half the deaths (similar populations)

Something isn’t adding up....

It depends on local circumstances. Spain has some of the most densely populated regions in Europe, as does Belgium.

We saw for ourselves that our half-hearted lockdown did make a difference. I just wish we'd gone further. Germany is very similar to the UK in many ways and had well organised lockdowns plus testing and tracking.

Spain was slow at the beginning, but then imposed strict lockdown. If it hadn't, it could very well still have the relatively high infection rates the UK still has and wouldn't have been able to open up the economy to tourism.

It all does add up.

And Japan, Growstuff?

I’m not trying to catch anyone out on this, I genuinely cannot see how their figure is so low given the population & density and lack of lockdown.

Sweden’s death rate is terrible compared to it’s neighbouring countries so I don’t think anyone can say their herd immunity policy has been successful in any way. Although Japan haven’t had a strict lockdown they do have very strict standards of hygiene, although it is rather puzzling. Because the virus is so unpredictable we still have to assume that it’s everywhere and it can kill us. I’ve just had a message from my daughter to say her random antibody test has come back positive: I did say it was a good thing that we isolated ourselves from her very early in the pandemic but she pointed out that she’d had a chest infection earlier in the year when we were still seeing each other. It’s all very strange. They do stress that, even if your test result is positive you mustn’t change your Covid safe behaviour in any way.

www.ft.com/content/7ecd5ded-9b90-4052-b849-0e153f701e1f

Sweden still has one of the highest death rates per capita in the world. Covid-19 has killed a very high percentage of the elderly and many people are questioning the country's response.

Its neighbour, Denmark, has virtually eradicated Covid-19.

I’m trying to remember if DrJohn has had an internet chat with someone fromJapan. He may have done. I’ll check it out.

The way Sweden has treated it’s older population is tantamount to euthanasia. There is a Dr John chat with a Swedish doctor that is very disturbing.

It's not easy to find anything up to date about Japan, but from what I have found it seems that it's a combination of rapid response to outbreaks, including local lockdowns, readiness to close borders, and the fact that the Japanese don't shake hands, have a very high standard of hygiene as a matter of course and have a high rate of mask wearing. I think that large gatherings were banned, too.

Someone else might be able to search more effectively than me and find out more.

This is one of the articles about Japan I looked at:

foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/14/japan-coronavirus-pandemic-lockdown-testing/

I don't know that much about Japan either. I do know that border enforcement measures were put in place quite quickly and permission to enter the country was denied to many (I think it still is).

I’ve just read an interesting Guardian article about Japan. They did close down schools, ban large public gatherings etc very early on. But they have very little testing so there could be more cases than are officially published. They also, as a matter of course, take off their shoes at home: something that most of us do anyway but they’re possibly more thorough about it. And I’d assume public toilets etc are spotless. They also eat a very healthy diet and tend not to be overweight.

Yes, I was going to say mask wearing too in regards to Japan. When I've been to the Far East it has always been noticeable that many Japanese people wear masks.
DD has Japanese friends and colleagues and if I've been introduced to them they tended to give a formal little bow rather than shake hands.

Interesting article MaizieD and their figures aren’t a lot worse now over a month later!

Greece is another country I’ve watched due to having friends living in Kefalonia and they have a similar population to Belgium and Sweden, had an extremely hard lockdown and have less than 200 deaths.

It might have been easier to lockdown islands and is a very military policing country like Spain and Italy. Cops carrying guns seems to work along the Med - imagine the outcry here!