Why we are still in deep trouble

MerylStreep

gillybob
My friend did see her brothers death certificate where the cause was covid. He didn't go in with covid and he never had it while he was in there.

Exactly my point MerylStreep thank you . My neighbour is adamant she wants the cause of her mums death corrected and I can’t say I blame her .

I agree with you Ellianne
It’s not about blaming particular groups, it’s about observing what is happening. You are correct Ellianne, the Chief Medical Officer for Trafford did say that, and anyone who watches the news on television can see that the people out drinking in the streets and not socially distancing are younger people. I know some younger people are shunning the alcohol culture but that cannot possibly be the majority because footage of younger people all over the country, including the north west, has been shown repeatedly ever since the pubs reopened. Of course there is a drinking culture amongst older people too, but they predominantly drink at home and are therefore are not spreading Covid19. The grey brigade also frequently go out to lunch in pubs and cafes, and may well drink alcohol too, but again they are much more likely to be found during the week in a quiet pub, rather than on Friday or Saturday night in the middle of throngs of other people. I’m sorry if these facts don’t suit everyone’s narrative, but it is what it is, throngs of people drinking alcohol and often getting drunk merry don’t go hand in hand with social distancing.

Gone are the days when we sat quietly in the corner of the pub with a Martini! Even at university, 40+ years ago, the common room and bar were made up of smaller groups.

Crikey Ellianne you must have gone to a very civilised university, I don’t remember it like that all! The crush of young people in bars and discos in the seventies was pretty much the same as it is now, and we probably drank more too. I just wonder if at that age we would have heeded the dangers to older people any more than they are now - I honestly doubt it.

Crikey Ellianne you must have gone to a very civilised university, I don’t remember it like that at all!
Yes, Casdon, Bedford College for Women, University of London. Very posh in Regent's Park.

Further to the question of patients dying from or with the virus, an elderly neighbour’s son told my husband that his father’s death certificate stated covid yet he had not been tested.

He had in fact died of cancer, and the family is determined to have the death certificate changed.

Apparently covid is often used to avoid the need for a post mortem.

We have no way of knowing how often that happens in hospitals up and down the country.

A lot of excess deaths could be simply because in the early days of the lockdown so many people were too scared to go to hospital for vital tests, so by the time they were properly examined and tested it was too late to save them.

Long before Covid19, when my lovely old Dad died, a post mortem was done because it was unsure whether he died of heart failure or the chest infection he was suffering from at the time. It turned out to be heart failure. However Mum and I were both very upset because Dad was 89 years old, had been suffering heart failure for years, and to be honest, we were terribly upset that a post mortem had to be done. Mum said ‘Poor old man.’ It seemed so unnecessary, he was old and ill. It didn’t really matter whether heart failure or a chest infection killed him. He had died. Therefore I’m not sure what difference it makes to individual families what is written on the death certificate, the grieving and the loss is just the same.

The worst thing for families is that they were unable to be with their family members during their illnesses because of Covid19.

Yesterday it was reported that the death rate in UKJ is down to the norm. for this time of year (based on figures for past five years).

Spot on Lemongrove. I am sick of the relentless complaining and the hindsight statements from so many who were strangely silent at those times when, apparently, completely different things should have been done. The world has never had to attempt to manage a situation like this before. Of course some mistakes will have been made, of course advice will subsequently be found to be wrong, but for goodness sake, does anyone think that politicians have set out to alienate the electorate and kill people? If you are alive today then thank your lucky stars - and let's just move forward cautiously with what we know, or think we know, and be grateful for our scientists who are leading the world in the search for vaccines, antibodies and testing.

I agree @Lemongrove

The very best thing that could happen for us is to get rid of the government, Buffoon boris is useless, changing his mind about rules he makes, We are really doomed until he goes and we get someone who puts the people before profits.

Lemongrass I agree and what we must remember is we are still learning about the virus, and many people are ignoring the advise, and others confusing thing for confusing things sake. People saying only a tiny percentage are dead, are ignoring that it's only a tiny percentage because of lockdown, yes we need to start reopening now as we know so much more. Hope every stays safe and well, and soon re enjoys some type of Normal life

The government are damned if they do and damned if they don't. We are all fighting the unknown.

Everyone has to do their part and be sensible.

Lemongrass is right.
Nanny Drakeford has done a good job for us here in Wales. Slow but steady.
We have to get the economy working again.

With you Lemongrove. Whilst I may not like or respect BJ, there is no evidence that anyone else could have done it better, other than by using hindsight.
Incidentally, we are all evidently set up to download the track and trace app once the app is ready. I was astonished to find this preparatory addition on my iPhone.
Look in Settings>Privacy>Health to see what I mean, or if your phone is android, I think you go to Settings> google settings.
It doesn’t do anything yet and presumably if you don’t turn it on/download the T&T app when it arrives, it won’t even if any use.
I was annoyed all the same.

The overall strategy is clearly right but two things keep floating past without enough comment/analysis.
1. The numbers testing positive are rising but the number of admissions to hospital and deaths is static or falling. What does this say about large numbers apparently having the virus with minor or no symptoms. Is there firm evidence that they are also transmitters? If not, are some of the measures a bit too sweeping?
2. We were warned of large spikes following over-crowding of beaches during heat waves and the BLM marches. Seems not to have happened. Is this thought curious?

Doesn't the rise in numbers testing positive just suggest winterwhite that there were many many more people than we thought walking round with the virus at the outset?

Urmistongran you are so right, well done. We need normality in all to forms.
Neuroticisms abound in this forum. I despair of what should be a leading phalanx of women.

Spot on lemongrove

Apart from the herd immunity approach as still not defined that there is one to this virus I agree Lemongrove. Also the lockdown should have happened quicker and penalties for ignoring the laws should be much more severe. I would water cannon those crowded on beaches and queuing with no social distancing at pubs.

Ellianne

Doesn't the rise in numbers testing positive just suggest winterwhite that there were many many more people than we thought walking round with the virus at the outset?

No.

Ditto lemongrove

maddyone

Long before Covid19, when my lovely old Dad died, a post mortem was done because it was unsure whether he died of heart failure or the chest infection he was suffering from at the time. It turned out to be heart failure. However Mum and I were both very upset because Dad was 89 years old, had been suffering heart failure for years, and to be honest, we were terribly upset that a post mortem had to be done. Mum said ‘Poor old man.’ It seemed so unnecessary, he was old and ill. It didn’t really matter whether heart failure or a chest infection killed him. He had died. Therefore I’m not sure what difference it makes to individual families what is written on the death certificate, the grieving and the loss is just the same.

The worst thing for families is that they were unable to be with their family members during their illnesses because of Covid19.

It looks to be very common maddyone . My lovely neighbours mum was only in her 50's and had fought a long and hard battle with cancer. To have CV as her cause of death seems to be a betrayal of all she went through.

Ooop meant to add........ which calls into question whether the figures we are reading and hearing are correct .

A pub/restaurant beside us was closed at the weekend because an idiot with symptoms went on a pub crawl. Last night they posted, on FB, to say they were open again and none of the staff had caught the virus, I queried their haste and said 48 hours was not long enough to know whether anyone had contracted the virus. During the night they sent me a private message to say that they had been told that a deep clean was not needed although they had done it.
The young people here are partying and sticking two fingers up to us, they really do not care.