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The Independent Sage Group

(22 Posts)
varian Sat 22-Aug-20 13:18:39

The Independent Sage Group do a weekly broadcast of their zoom meeting. This week it mainly concerns education, particularly universities, but the first section, by epidemiologist Prof Gabriel Scully gives up to date statistics.

varian Sat 22-Aug-20 13:20:21

Independent Sage are very concerned about the abolition of PHE, regarding it as a highly disruptive and unhelpful intervention.

growstuff Sat 22-Aug-20 13:44:46

I watch it every week. It's usually just over an hour and you can follow them on Facebook and Twitter.

It's interesting that they don't always agree, but it's always interesting to follow their reasoning. I like the transparency, rather than the government-directed spin which is what is usually available in the media.

The abolition of PHE at this point seems ludicrous. It wasn't perfect, but the inevitable organisational change is going to be disruptive. It would also appear that it's been privatised.

Moreover, the test and trace function which is now supposed to be the responsibility of local authorities has been handed to Deloitte.

This is all happening under our noses - and people are only interested in "good news" or wondering where Johnson spent a few days! angry

Cs783 Sat 22-Aug-20 14:12:01

Thank you for this link. It gives a really strong view against abolishing PHE right now as well as clarity on rising rates of infection, then full discussion of the Independent SAGE report on how Universities need to act to protect safety as well as promote learning. Students and all concerned incl towns with Universities) need to prepare.

Greeneyedgirl Sat 22-Aug-20 14:59:36

Thank you so much varian for the reminder about this group, which is refreshing in its transparency, and which I think will be a particularly important source of unspun information, as the winter draws in, and cases start to rise again.
This informative post is one of the reasons I stick with GN. I have learned so much from helpful members. ??

varian Sat 22-Aug-20 16:44:10

Thank you Greeneyegirl. I also appreciate the useful information and links on GN.

We, as individuals, can only know so much, or check out a few sources, but as a group of Grannies with more time on our hands than we had when we were younger, together we can check out quite a lot.

Jane10 Sat 22-Aug-20 17:58:38

I always feel its a sort of second eleven of people who didn't get picked for the first team. They'll have a built in chip on their shoulder and are likely to want to undermine SAGE.

growstuff Sat 22-Aug-20 18:05:19


I always feel its a sort of second eleven of people who didn't get picked for the first team. They'll have a built in chip on their shoulder and are likely to want to undermine SAGE.

What evidence for you have for that?

Have you ever looked at their CVs?

It's not like you to be so spiteful.

growstuff Sat 22-Aug-20 18:06:48

Have you ever watched any of their videos?

In what way have they undermined SAGE? Some examples would be good.

Greeneyedgirl Sat 22-Aug-20 18:12:26

Sir David King, former Chief Scientific Advisor to the government, chair of the Independent Sage Group, definitely can’t be described as “second eleven”. This group would not be necessary if the government was more transparent about “the science” advice upon which it has made decisions.
Have you actually looked at this group in action Jane10?

suziewoozie Sat 22-Aug-20 18:16:34

Independent Sage do not lick Johnson’s Boots so of course the Johnson isolators on here want to rubbish them. To disagree with Our Great Leader is the Greatest Sin.

suziewoozie Sat 22-Aug-20 18:17:37

Isolators = idolators of course

suziewoozie Sat 22-Aug-20 18:21:20

Here’s the ‘second eleven’.

Dorsetcupcake61 Sat 22-Aug-20 18:53:20

I have been watching them for a while. Like others have mentioned I like their transparency. If they dont know the answer to something or not sure what something indicates they say so. No blustering or three word slogans. I also like how polite and respectful they are towards each other.
I'm not a fan of BBC news but find the Channel 4 news quite good.
I'm on the Covid App where report in daily symptoms etc. They also have a map which shows how many cases in local areas and I find this quite useful. Its interesting to note that Bournemouth which is not far from me is currently experiencing a rise in cases,not massive. It was also in the news today that Bournemouth was one of the towns that had benefited most from eat out to help out?.

Jane10 Sat 22-Aug-20 20:42:04

I'm not being spiteful. If these people had been the best available then surely they'd have been on the original SAGE group?

varian Sat 22-Aug-20 20:46:38

Do you seriously think that our present government is made up of the best avaible politicians?

suziewoozie Sat 22-Aug-20 23:35:50

Honestly Jane what planet are you on? People are appointed on merit? I raise you the whole cabinet, Dido Hardings for starters. Why can’t you admit you cannot accept any criticism of Johnson?

suziewoozie Sat 22-Aug-20 23:37:02

I’ll chuck in the Chair and CEO of Ofqual for free

growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 02:50:25


I'm not being spiteful. If these people had been the best available then surely they'd have been on the original SAGE group?

A couple of them were in SAGE, but they had concerns about the lack of transparency, which is why they set up a separate group. They're not in competition.

Originally, SAGE was reluctant to publish who was even in the group and had be forced to publish its minutes. Even now, they've been heavily redacted and are not complete.

There was also concern that Dominic Cummings and Cummings' friend, Ben Warner (a data scientist), attended meetings.

It was also felt that they were becoming puppets and scapegoats for the government, who claimed to "follow the science", but weren't.

From the start, Independent SAGE has had meetings online, which the public can view and they take questions from the public.

Maybe you watch the meetings Jane10.

Jane10 Sun 23-Aug-20 07:59:03

I'm not a Boris fan or a Brexiteer which seems to be the to go to insult for anyone who dares to disagree with the anti govt Grans.
I rate Chris Whitty and have some personal knowledge of him.

suziewoozie Sun 23-Aug-20 10:11:17

Rating Chris Witty is neither here or there. Unless you have a scientific background akin to those on IS I do not see how having personal knowledge of him is at all relevant to your opinions on IS. You made nasty unwarranted unevidenced comments about the members of IS when you were in no position so to do. And I believe you did it because they are critical of Johnson. And why on earth did you bring Brexit into a discussion about scientific expertise?

varian Sun 23-Aug-20 12:41:09

Independent SAGE has repeatedly called for urgent strengthening of public health systems in England, particularly at the local level. It has also called for much greater prominence to be given to public health advice and expertise within government and its advisory bodies, including the official SAGE structures. These latest hasty and far reaching changes should not have been developed without careful consideration and should not have been promulgated by selective briefing to a newspaper.