Social distancing in Christmas bubbles

To those who have “done a risk assessment” are “keeping the windows open” and “will only be staying an hour” even if you’ll be “taking your own serving spoon”. You are putting yourself and others at risk and have no grounds to complain about anyone else.
If it matters about whether you and your loved ones stay Covid free then you should not be mixing at all and you are simply being hypocritical.
It doesn’t matter what is allowed. Mixing households spreads the virus.

Whitty has just said just because we can do something it doesn't mean that we should. I think that the message is quite clear.

The number of times I have heard "we will only be there an hour", " we will keep the windows open", "we won't hug and kiss".
Even if you get the vaccination it is two injections three weeks apart and then a time lapse before antibodies kick in, you are not going to be immune at Christmas.
Most of the people I know who caught the virus had not been out of the house so someone had brought it to their door.
I think a celebration in the summer is a great idea, eating outdoors in the fresh air.

I agree Esspee even although it is undoubtedly difficult for some.

I have noticed friends who will be mixing with their families, weirdly seem to think they are safe in their own large family “bubbles” but “strangers” are the ones likely to be infectious.?

I don’t get these multiple bubbles people are talking about eg “they are in a bubble with US”. I, like Monica, thought bubbles were for a single person to bubble with another household

Daisymae The same Chris Whitty who said ‘ would I want someone to see their family? Of course, that’s what Christmas is about, just don’t hug elderly relatives’
Sound bites are confusing for all.

Bubbles are just for a single household mixing with another family. I think the confusion has arisen because we have been advised by the government that three households are permitted to mix. This doesn’t mean that mixing is permitted with several different families. Only the three identified, therefore “bubble” interpretation.

I mean extended mixing of three households just for the five days of Christmas holiday.

One of my biggest concerns, is how the government plan to regain control once Christmas is over?
Of course some families will pass COVID amongst each other, but the majority won’t. Do we run the risk of those who mixed ‘safely’ for five days being less likely to follow household mixing rules once they are brought back in?
In my area, it was very obvious the second lockdown was observed far less stringently than the first (although we did still see falling numbers). If the government bring in a third lockdown in January (which feels inevitable), it stands to reason that compliance will reduce again. Are people really going to go back to not seeing each other, when they have done so, without consequence, in December.

I think the government are nuts allowing this. Its an extra large Sunday dinner! Just my sis and I thank goodness. I have friends that their 'kids' have huffed and are now not even speaking to them because they don't want them all to meet up in their house like they normally do. They don't realise that my friends are missing out too not seeing their grandkids on Xmas Day, but it's something they feel they have to do to stay safe.

Well it will just be me and Mr Barmey and the cat over Christmas. I am ECV and don't intend to go into anyones house, family or friend. My son will come over one day over Christmas but it will be an outside visit to exchange presents and I won't be seeing any of the GC or GGC. I have also made the difficult choice of not seeing my disabled daughter who lives on her own over Christmas, she just doesn't take any precautions to stay safe.
This government has made a huge mistake in giving us all 5 days freedom to be paid for by more deaths and lockdowns. Why can't they just be hard and cancel Christmas this year. I know that people will break the rules if they don't give us this freedom but will it be that many. Happy Christmas everyone.

What do you base your belief on the the majority won’t SpecialNanny I wonder? As I understand the evidence Covid is mainly spread within households.

Whoops. SpanielNanny not SpecialNanny

Nelly99

I’m so upset my daughter had her first baby a few weeks ago , she wants me to take the baby just for a night so they can have a rest ... trouble is I know the other side of the family have been seeing her too , which includes several people . I’ve stayed in since last April , of course I want to help , I want to snuggle that little baby more than anything but can I ? Should I ? And I feel like to say no is being horrible and I don’t want to upset my daughter or make her feel like I’m being stupid. Trouble is how do I say it without feeling bad ? And just how do I say it ? I’m torn I feel so cruel . Help please ?

Don't really know what to say Nelly. Are you locked down because you are at risk yourself or is it just your age? Your DD must understand why you are worried. Could you take the baby for a walk so she can have even a short break for a shower and rest a while.

My daughter gave birth just before the first lock down. I did get to see her a couple of times but not again until the summer. I would have gone to her and maybe even moved in, leaving higher risk DH here to cope.

If the rest of the family are intruding too much the baby's daddy needs to tell them to stay away a while to give the new mum some space. Maybe they could do what lots of us did and take turns with the baby while the other sleeps.

Hopefully others will have some ideas.

I am waiting to hear what is said on 16th December. We are lucky, our Christmas this year was only going to be us and DD, who is in our bubble. This year DS and family are with his DW's family, but they planned to come down to us on 28th December.

We have a very strong reason for not breaking any rules. DDiL works for the NHS, nothing to do with the clinical side, she does not even work on a medical site or do anything medical, but, in the NHS, breaking the COVID rules is a disciplinary offence and, new in her job, she is being extra careful.

It’s certainly true that most transmission occurs within households Greeneyedgirl , I’m not disputing that. But if you don’t have COVID, you can’t pass it on, and statistically the majority of the population do not have COVID and so aren’t able to infect anyone.

For example: in my town last week, just under 200 people tested positive. The WHO estimates that up to 80% of cases are mild or asymptomatic so that would make potentially 1000 cases. Even if the figures are way off and we multiply that by 10, saying my town had 10,000 cases (which is probably a huge exaggeration), that is less than 10% of its population. Now lets assume that each of those hypothetical cases live in different households (unlikely, I know) my town has over 46,000 occupied households. It would mean that three quarters of them could get together, lick each other’s faces, and not pass on COVID (although I would advise against that! )

My concern is that the large number of people who don’t have the virus and so can’t and won’t pass it on become complacent. The 5 days ends, they all remain healthy and so continue to mix, even though the rules no longer allow it.

Greeneyedgirl I did some demographic research as a favour to a friend during the first lockdown. I don’t just know lots of facts about the population of my town

My brother’s nice old neighbour has died. Lovely old man with a reasonable quality of life. He had been isolating but a friend turned up with a couple of their mates to his home as a surprise on his birthday. One week later he was in hospital. He never came home.
Now the friend who organised the surprise is devastated.

Well I will be on my own. I have declined my DD invitation to hers and husband’s which would have included 2 teenaged GC plus his parents on Christmas Day. They are planning as usual to spend a French Christmas Eve at his parents with his brother and partner, which I am invited to but have refused also. It is sad but there will be plenty other times as I am planning to live to at least 100 and I want to see my third daughter’s future children.

Oh Esspee, how terribly sad.

Dr John was saying in his blog that countries that have been successful in combatting the virus also contact trace backwards because it’s only a small percentage of people that spread the virus; the superspreaders. I can’t pretend to understand it fully but it sort of made sense. I guess he meant to combat the virus you need to know where it’s come from not just who it’s been passed on to.

I am doing the same, and to be honest looking forward to the peace and quiet

The government and scientists have been clear - yes you CAN see family for Christmas but that does not mean you should. They have said we need to weigh the risk carefully before deciding whether you should meet family at Christmas - its ONE Christmas for the vast majority of people, better safe than the massive increase in cases we are bound to see in the New Year. The main reason they have allowed this relaxation for a few days is because they strongly suspected a fair number of people would ignore the rules anyway - at least this way they can provide advice to try to ensure Christmas family gatherings are as safe as possible. Not to mention taking pressure off the police who would have to enfore the law.

I am having my daughter and her family for Boxing Day only and will be having a finger buffet with paper plates!! But still excited to see them

My daughter is a carer and will be working. We get a flying visit on 27th. We will do basic stuff like clean the handles and have a window open..