We need to take control

Namsnanny

^why is it different?^
Because the police had sufficient evidence (noise and complaints from the neighbours) to warrant such an action.
The suggestion is entry can be made without prior knowledge of provocation.

Presumably the police will only enter a premises if the household has been reported. If the people inside are breaking the law, there are grounds to enter the house and the people deserve what they get.

Sorry, haven’t read any replies, but have noticed there’s another thread running about booking holidays!!?. I feel like I’m living in a time warp. It doesn’t make sense. I said ages ago on here, we need troops on the streets. It does seem there are areas where restrictions could improve. Close airports, absolutely no shops open except for food. Only essentials coming in via road,rail or sea. However, it’s never going to matter what the government does when we have so many morons living in this country.

Maizyd leave the recriminations till later

These are facts not supposition or recriminations.
Said in relation to another posters comments on how well China is doing at controlling the virus.
I'm.just pointing out that its impossible to compare us with China when they havent told the truth.

If that was the case growstuff there wouldn't need to be a change in the law.

EllanVannin
Here's a little light reading for you. fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2015/handbook-european-law-relating-rights-child

Namsnanny

Maizyd leave the recriminations till later

These are facts not supposition or recriminations.
Said in relation to another posters comments on how well China is doing at controlling the virus.
I'm.just pointing out that its impossible to compare us with China when they havent told the truth.

I care very much about human rights abuses in China, especially in Hong Kong and against the Uighurs. However, I really couldn't give a monkeys about how China is controlling coronavirus. Their country, their methods. Leave them to it.

One of my current students is from mainland China. When the pandemic first started, I remember she told me about her grandparents (with whom she's in touch via social media), who weren't allowed to leave their flat apart from going shopping and for medical appointments. The grandparents (and great grandparents) just accepted it and weren't suffering.

Namsnanny

If that was the case growstuff there wouldn't need to be a change in the law.

If a change in the law is needed, bring it on!

The OP was holding China up as an example (against the UK) - which is presumably why other posters have mentioned it subsequently.

Can anybody honestly believe any information that comes out of China after what has happened?

Lewie

The OP was holding China up as an example (against the UK) - which is presumably why other posters have mentioned it subsequently.

Can anybody honestly believe any information that comes out of China after what has happened?

That's right Lewie be cause it was included by others I passed comment
Well within the constraints of the original post.

growstuff ...the human rights issue, etc., doesn't belong on this thread, and therefore I havent approached it.
China lying to the WHO is pertinent, so I did.

China is not the only country which has dealt with covid in a quite draconian fashion. If you don't like/believe what they are saying there are plenty of other successful countries you can look at.

Please don't use disbelief in what is being said by China as an excuse for not supporting stricter, but more successful, measures.

If a change in the law is needed bring it on!

I may very well agree with you (in this instance) if that was the outcome!

BUT, I dont like knee jerk reactions by invested parties when it comes to changing civil liberties.

MaizieD

China is not the only country which has dealt with covid in a quite draconian fashion. If you don't like/believe what they are saying there are plenty of other successful countries you can look at.

Please don't use disbelief in what is being said by China as an excuse for not supporting stricter, but more successful, measures.

Is anyone saying that?

Have I said that?

Please dont infer, just read the posts carefully.

I agree with most of what you've posted today MaizieD. Just to be clear, I support stricter measures. Close places of worship, restrict non-essential shops for instance.

I don't support people who say that we should be more like China and that our rights don't matter.

Namsnanny

^If a change in the law is needed bring it on!^

I may very well agree with you (in this instance) if that was the outcome!

BUT, I dont like knee jerk reactions by invested parties when it comes to changing civil liberties.

I don't like irresponsible people flouting the law and creating links in a chain which can cause death. Surveys have shown that the majority of transmission is taking place within people's homes and is passed from and to visitors.

I have never known so much concern for civil liberties. Maybe they only matter when they affect people personally.

Your point about right to life against right to freedom of expression is a good one Growstuff. But I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe we need a thread on human rights .

Unlike Namsnanny I do think its relevant to speak about it on this thread since the OP included the sentence To hell with personal Liberty

Alegrias1

I agree with most of what you've posted today MaizieD. Just to be clear, I support stricter measures. Close places of worship, restrict non-essential shops for instance.

I don't support people who say that we should be more like China and that our rights don't matter.

Observing "best practice" is a well-established management technique. It involves looking at what works (and something in China clearly is) and adapting to individual situations. It doesn't mean that the UK has to become like China overnight or take Chines solutions "off the peg".

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what our objections are to Chinese solutions and whether those objections are reasonable and/or could be overcome. I expect there are people in China discussing the pandemic in Western Europe and shaking their heads in disbelief that people won't do as they're told.

Alegrias1

Your point about right to life against right to freedom of expression is a good one Growstuff. But I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe we need a thread on human rights .

Unlike Namsnanny I do think its relevant to speak about it on this thread since the OP included the sentence ^To hell with personal Liberty^

Sometimes different rights do clash. That's why courts of human rights are needed.

I'd forgotten what was in the op. I agree that personal liberty matters and shouldn't be sent to hell. However, surely personal liberty includes the right to be able to go to a supermarket and not be breathed on by somebody not wearing a mask, but was exercising their personal liberty not to wear one.

Growstuff, you've hit the nail on the head there! People do ignore civil liberties until they see a direct threat to themselves.

In theory, I'm in favour of much stricter measures (to save lives). In practice, though, there's little point, is there, when rules aren't enforced?

I don't ignore civil liberties, ever.

The old phrase of "with rights come responsibilities" couldn't be truer in this situation. But nobody should stand by and say nothing when people start dismissing personal liberty, human rights and democracy, all of which has been done on this thread.

growstuff, going to a supermarket, anywhere around here (London) right now would be reckless behaviour. There'd be several infectious individuals there already!

Alegrias1 ...
I dont support those who say we should be more like China and our rights dont matter

Unlike namsnanny I do think its relevant to speak about it on this thread since the OP included to hell with personal liberty

I'm confused!

My point is we cant trust China on anything to do with Covid as they were found lying to the WHO.

Also out civil liberties MAY be under threat with regard to the Police Commissioner asking for new laws to challenge our rights to need a warrant to enter our homes.

Thats all.

The human rights issue doesnt really come under the general thrust of the original post.

Discuss it by all means when ever or where ever you like.

I'm just pointing out I'm not changing the direction of this thread by doing so.

Nothing I have said is meant to address anything other than China, its veracity on Covid and what Civil Liberties in the UK means at this moment in time.

If I've confuse some then I hope this sets the record straight.

All I meant Namsnanny was that you said you weren't going to talk about human rights, but that I thought it was relevant because of the comment in the OP. Sorry if it came across as as negative

This post has nothing to do with China’s civil liberties. I simply wished to highlight that countries such as China and New Zealand have, through strict implementation of strategies designed to halt the spread, been able to control the pandemic.