We need to take control

My nephew, a construction worker, says there is little difference in the amount of traffic than there was in the summer when everyone was back at work.

I agree with those who are fed up hearing about ‘rights’. I was always told that along with rights come responsibilities. That is what these human rights demonstrators forget.

I get cross about the holiday-makers too. That should have been stopped at the very beginning. I get cross with the whining on Fb about flights being cancelled. What were they doing booking anyway? My son-in-law’s son lives in Spain and says that The Balearics blame British holiday makers for the spread of the virus there.

Just me?
No Alegrias <sigh>

No Alegrias, not just you.
I suggest those who complain about human rights have a look at countries where there are none.

How can ‘everything’ be open in a tier 4 area, Gagajo?
It’s certainly not the case here - I’m within a 10 minute bus ride of the biggest shopping centre for a long way, unless you’re talking central London.

As for what China does, I for one am very thankful that we don’t live under such a draconian, zero human rights regime, even if it does mean a Boris-balls-up over the bloody virus.

People keep going on about personal responsibility for 'sticking to the rules' as if this is the only thing that would make lockdown work, but there is an economic dimension to it, too. Unless people are assured of financial support when they isolate, those living on the breadline (or below) just aren't going to do it. There are still 3 million people who have never had any financial support from the government. They can't live on fresh air.

Additionally, government has failed to establish the importance of ventilation in the minds of the public, carrying on with its inane 'hands, space, face' message (and forcing children into poorly ventilated schools) long after the danger of aerosols was well established. I could continue, but I'm sure you get my drift.

It's no wonder that people aren't observing 'the rules' as rigorously as they did when the government is failing to do what it could do, in fact making the situation worse (schools) in some cases, and failing to support people to enable them to 'do the right thing'. Draconian measures won't help. Government has to play its part; which it isn't at the moment.

Support for MaizieD's comments. The other issue is I don't know anyone who isn't finding the current lock down much tougher than the first one. I'm in the CEV category but, my home is comfortable and I can afford to order food and keep my heating on. I realise how fortunate I am and can't imagine how depressing it must be to be isolated, cold and frightened.

I feel for young families. WFH whilst educating children, without the usual support from grandparents. Not knowing if their employment is secure, having to heat their homes during this cold spell because everyone is home all the time. The nonsense of a PM telling the nation on Sunday that children should safely return to school the next day, only to close the schools on Monday evening can't be forgotten.

We don't live in an authoritarian state, we police by consent. and I don't think China, with its record of Human Abuses, is a good example.Their safety precautions in the laboratory where they were investigating corona virus were lamentable, and we have no idea of the accuracy of their preventive measures other than what they choose to release.

It would be interesting to know where all the people in hospital caught covid, but I can't imagine people attached to ventilators are being cross-questioned as to their previous activities.

If predictions are correct, surely the increase in cases should decrease shortly, if it was linked to Christmas and the New Year, or is that too simplistic?

It seems obvious the increase is linked to the social gatherings, which were encouraged by the government.
I think the cat is out of the bag and unlike to decrease much in the year future.

I think that's a bit pessimistic Iam64!

I also believe though that it was the social gatherings over Christmas that have caused the increase. The new variant hasn't helped but it can't just be a coincidence that cases started to increase just after Christmas, while the new variant has been in the UK since the autumn.

If the vaccine isn't going to help us out of this situation, why are we bothering with it?

I thank God we are nothing like China when dealing with this . Also if , as th OP suggests China is battling a fresh outbreak then surely that proves that even their draconian measures don’t work. On a lighter note I agree with comments on the glamorous walkers _ I look NOTHING like that, if my dogs could talk they would testify to that!!!?

If the vaccine isn't going to help us out of this situation, why are we bothering with it?

The vaccine will struggle to help us while we still have an incompetent government messing up everything they put their hands to.

Grannygravy...
China has denied WHO access

China lied to the WHO the first time around.
Therefore how can anything they say be trusted now?

MaizieD I endorse totally your post @ 09.26.

There is a lot more the government could do to support people in vulnerable situations (and I don't mean just those who are shielding). Yes, it would cost money, but the amount pales into insignificance compared with the amount which has been handed out to various cronies and would reap benefits by ensuring that people stayed at home when positive and could mitigate some of the mental health issues people are experiencing and the disadvantages of remote teaching. In the medium/long term, support now would enable the economy to get back to something like normality more quickly.

Namsnanny

*Grannygravy*...
China has denied WHO access

China lied to the WHO the first time around.
Therefore how can anything they say be trusted now?

Why does it matter? Let's concentrate on our own country.

We need to take control

But what will that look like in practise?

A police commissioner is asking for the law to change to give them the power to enter peoples homes

Presumably to check for rule breakers.

Would we want this?
Isnt this a hammer to crack a walnut?

On the subject of rights, I was reading an article (sorry, can't find it now) about human rights. As we all know human rights sometimes contradict each other and decisions have to be made as to which right trumps another.

Yes, there is a right to freedom of expression (eg not to wear a mask and to leave home whenever you want) but there is also a right to life. A government has the responsibility to ensure that all citizens have a right not to have their lives taken away unnecessarily by others behaving recklessly. Which is more important - the right to freedom of expression or the right to life?

Namsnanny

^We need to take control^

But what will that look like in practise?

A police commissioner is asking for the law to change to give them the power to enter peoples homes

Presumably to check for rule breakers.

Would we want this?
Isnt this a hammer to crack a walnut?

I don't remember many people complaining when the police broke up student house parties in a couple of well-publicised events. Why is it any different if the police break up large gatherings of family members or friends?

growstuff said in response to posters drawing comparisons to both China and NZ.
Pointing out that unless the information is correct the conclusion will be skewed.
If the conclusion is skewed, the way forward ( for the discussion or the pandemic) is going to fail.

let's concentrate on our own country

Yes I agree, but we dont live in a bubble do we?
It could be said if we had collaborated more with other Asian countries from the off, we would be in a better place now.

Thank you, Iam64 and growstuff

If predictions are correct, surely the increase in cases should decrease shortly, if it was linked to Christmas and the New Year, or is that too simplistic?

I think it's too simplistic, eazybee. This mutant strain is spreading like wildfire and the government just isn't doing enough to isolate it. There are straws in the wind, like the Liverpool experiment with the lateral flow testing, cheap, fast results and identifies people who are highly infectious, but without financial support for people who cannot afford to stop work to isolate it won't stop them spreading the virus. The government is struggling and, I think, close to, (if not already, being overwhelmed.

growstuff

Namsnanny

Grannygravy...
China has denied WHO access

China lied to the WHO the first time around.
Therefore how can anything they say be trusted now?

Why does it matter? Let's concentrate on our own country.

Areed, growstuff.

Leave the recriminations to later, when, or if, we ever get through this.

Agreed

Namsnanny

growstuff said in response to posters drawing comparisons to both China and NZ.
Pointing out that unless the information is correct the conclusion will be skewed.
If the conclusion is skewed, the way forward ( for the discussion or the pandemic) is going to fail.

let's concentrate on our own country

Yes I agree, but we dont live in a bubble do we?
It could be said if we had collaborated more with other Asian countries from the off, we would be in a better place now.

I'm not disagreeing with what could/should have been, but we are where we are now.

MaizieD

Thank you, Iam64 and growstuff

If predictions are correct, surely the increase in cases should decrease shortly, if it was linked to Christmas and the New Year, or is that too simplistic?

I think it's too simplistic, eazybee. This mutant strain is spreading like wildfire and the government just isn't doing enough to isolate it. There are straws in the wind, like the Liverpool experiment with the lateral flow testing, cheap, fast results and identifies people who are highly infectious, but without financial support for people who cannot afford to stop work to isolate it won't stop them spreading the virus. The government is struggling and, I think, close to, (if not already, being overwhelmed.

Have you seen the infection rates in Liverpool now? They're amongst the highest in the country (three times those of Manchester), so that experiment didn't work very well.

why is it different?
Because the police had sufficient evidence (noise and complaints from the neighbours) to warrant such an action.
The suggestion is entry can be made without prior knowledge of provocation.

Apparently, in one of the poorest areas of Liverpool, where infection rates were/are highest, only 4% of people volunteered for tests. They knew that if they tested positive, they wouldn't be able to afford not to work.