For everyone who's bending the rules!

Thank you all for your good wishes. You are all very kind.
Having had first hand experience of being in hospital, I would urge everyone to do as they are asked to stay safe and keep others safe.

I've mentioned on another thread that someone I knew well was admitted to A&E at the same time I was. He died of Covid yesterday and his family are now in fourteen day isolation!
They thought it wouldn't happen to them!

Alexa

Marydoll, I hope you have recovered and are safely home again.

There will always be stupid people as long as there are people. It wont be long now before the vaccines make a lot more people immune to this filthy virus.

Yes, there will always be people who won't face reality. Unfortunately, there are also some who can't afford to self-isolate when they know they should and the government should consider how they could be supported - urgently. Those who can afford to do the right thing, really should and have no excuses.

Please don't think that a vaccine will make people immune.

M0nica

Franbern when I expressed the ideas in your last paragraph, I got flamed.

Too many people are assuming, that the whole country are doing whatever they can see from their bedroom window.

If everybody were doing what I can see from my garden window, the virus would be long gone. I don't assume anything, but the virus doesn't spread like magic. It spreads because people are in contact with each other. I don't go out, but nobody has to be very bright to realise what's going on.

For a start, schools should never have been forced to carry on as normal. People stuck their heads in the sand and the reality of the number of infections hardly made it into the popular press, which was too busy demonising teachers.

Yes- kids carry it but often don't get sick themselves so they really shouldn't be out in the midst of a surge in cases. I feel sorry for the teachers who are putting their lives at risk. With all the technology available shouldn't home schooling via a laptop or tablet be available? It was so strict here that one of my grandchildren's classmates got told off for only wearing his school uniform on his top half online. The teacher made him go and take his PJ bottoms off and put his proper trousers on which I thought was funny, gave me a laugh. It is a Lutheran school so maybe they are more strict that way? It was timed for all the normal lessons and they had a lunch break at normal times and then had to come back online for afternoon lessons. Terrific and hats off to the lovely teachers for making it all possible.

nanna8, online teaching is certainly a means of trying to continue teaching the basic curriculum. Home schooling in my LA is available online, but to a limited extent.
The teachers I know are willing, but the unfortunately infrastructure isn't quite up to coping with what is required. My son who is very IT literate, told me that the many devices they own, don't seem to be very compatible with the platform they are using. This is a very forward thinking LA, I know this because I was one of their IT masterclasses, so if they can't get it right, heaven help us.

Do you know how much preparation a virtual lesson involves?
I used to manage and deliver linked maths lessons between three feeder primary schools and the secondary school, it wasn't easy, I can tell you!

Working in an area of high deprivation, many pupils didn't have access to technology, neither devices nor broadband. Social services provided laptops to help with homework and some parents immediately sold them on for drugs. That was the reality of it.
The LA are providing laptops, but some parents can't afford to pay for broadband nor do not have the inclination or confidence to work with their children. The very children who need the most support will suffer.

Yesterday I had the privilege of working remotely with my granddaughter on a talking and listen lesson, provided by the LA. She was lucky, she had me to do it with her, as her daddy was snowed under, trying to work from home.
I then took the opportunity to work on her phonics and number skills. I was exhausted after it and that was only one child.

I do believe that closing the schools is the right thing to do and should have been done much sooner.
Get that part right, then we can start on education recovery, once it is safe to go back.

Do not forget that most schools are still open, and the numbers attending increasing almost daily.

So many children do not facilities in their homes to take on 'remote' learning. They do not have broadband, and/or do not have a laptop, tablet, etc. Many do not have anywhere they can sit quietly to do school work.

Even in reasonably good homes, there may be two or three or more siblings, all trying to find a space and machine on which to work. Many of the parents may be at home, but are desperately trying to work from home, and cannot supervise what their children are doing.

We are not in the Janet and John times. (Dad in the garage with John cleaning the car, Janet in the kitchen with Mum, baking)!!! Reality of life in 2021 is very different. And, so many live in very cramped conditions, where even the idea of home exercise is laughable.

It is so very easy for retired folk, all getting in their pension money regularly, with no jobs to worry about to make sweeping statements about closing schools, having tighter lockdown, stopping people go anywhere at any time - just staying at home.

During the first lockdown, home violence and abuse spiralled, as did suicides, - with this one in the winter, it will be even worse. Death comes in many forms, not just via Covid.

Is it because people have so much time on their hands that they are so judgemental about everyone else???

Reporting on neighbours, family, friends - absolutely horrifying in my opinion. The German Nazi party supported this sort of action, as did the Stasi.

Franbern, schools in Scotland are closed.

So, if no children at all are actually in attendance at any school, what in earth is happening to the young children of key workers (NHS, food suppliers, etc. etc.)? Are they just being left 'home alone'? What is being done about vulnerable children? Are they being left at home where they are at the most vulnerable? And is broadband and laptops, etc and space in their homes guaranteed to EVERY child in Scotland to be able to continue their education in their homes?

II am seriously interested in your reply to this Marydoll. If all of this in place, then we have a lot to learn.

Franbern That's a gross trivialisation of what the Nazis and Stasi did.

Marydoll

*Franbern*, schools in Scotland are closed.

When did Scotland close schools to all pupils? Last week the rules were similar to England, where some pupils are attending.

So what do you suggest Franbern? School pupils are serious spreaders of infection.

Franbern, I know for a fact that vulnerable children are in nursery, as my friend is a nursery teacher and she is still working to support those children and their families.

www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-school-re-opening-arrangements-for-january-2021/pages/children-of-keyworkers/

This might help to clarify the situation.

I do know that laptops are still being given out, but with the best will in the world, for a variety of reasons, there is no way every child will have access to online learning.

I have spent this morning supporting my grandaughter remotely, as my son is working from home. It's a logistical nightmare, as I'm shielding.
Although, I have the necessary skills and expertise, I had to be very inventive and it was absolutely exhausting.
Many pupils do not have that advantage.

My D had a phone-call from one of the schools last week that a pupil had tested positive so she went to pick up her GS and the school is now closed until further notice. He's 14 and we're in a high infection area----where to my mind no child should have gone back until after Easter.

growstuff It is too easy to take such horror at the genocide and mass murders that characterised the Nazis, that you fail to see what lay underneath it all, not the ideology, but the routine organisation of the trivia of life that enabled them to build the empire of acceptable death.

The Stasi, operated the same way and once you start encouraging and praising the community benefits of those willing to keep an eye on their neighbours and report their every transgression, you are preparing a society to accept an organisation like the Stasi, and eventually a society like the Chinese now have and the reality of George Orwell's 1984.

Yes- kids carry it but often don't get sick themselves so they really shouldn't be out in the midst of a surge in cases. I feel sorry for the teachers who are putting their lives at risk.

Totally agree with you nanna8. They’re not called ‘the cute carriers’ for nothing!

Haven't some people always kept an eye on their neighbours? I have been surprised about how much mine know about my movements and have asked where I have been (pre-covid as I go nowhere now.)
I don't think many will actually report people for what they see as breaking the rules they will just feel aggrieved and do nothing. I think in general the British are fair minded and will give people the benefit of the doubt before resorting to reporting them.

M0nica

growstuff It is too easy to take such horror at the genocide and mass murders that characterised the Nazis, that you fail to see what lay underneath it all, not the ideology, but the routine organisation of the trivia of life that enabled them to build the empire of acceptable death.

The Stasi, operated the same way and once you start encouraging and praising the community benefits of those willing to keep an eye on their neighbours and report their every transgression, you are preparing a society to accept an organisation like the Stasi, and eventually a society like the Chinese now have and the reality of George Orwell's 1984.

What do I fail to see? Have you read diaries, letters and newspaper articles in German from the Nazi and DDR periods?

Don't patronise me.

I dislike more than most what this government has done since it's come to office, but Covid restrictions really can't be compared with those imposed by the Nazis and East German governments. It's an insult to those who suffered.

BTW What first hand knowledge do you have of Chinese society?

Marydoll, schools in Scotland (at least primaries - not sure about secondaries) are definitely open for vulnerable and key workers' children. They are doing online learning for everyone else. All 3 of our teacher relations are on rotas for doing both.

Hope your recovery is progressing well.

Wheniwasyourage, I do know that there are hubs for the children of key workers. However, in my granddaughter's school, there is no live online learning, it's all preset work, which parents have to log onto on a daily basis and have to send a report of what tasks have been completed. There is no live interaction with staff. I would be surprised if all children were accessing this.
Of the five primary schools in this area, only one is open and that is functioning as a hub and as far as I am aware, there has been little uptake.

My friend's daughter, a primary teacher is working in the hub on a rota basis as well as preparing work at home.

What some are finding difficult is that a number of different passwords are needed to log onto each task.
Years ago, when I was involved in developing GLOW, the Scottish Educational Intranet, the hope was that it would be a single platform to access all online learning in the event of children not being able to go to school.

I have nothing but admiration for my ex colleagues.

Marydoll Essex tried a similar intranet with shared resources many years ago. However, here in England, so many schools became academised and the local authority no longer had the funds to fund it.

There are pros and cons to live online learning. It's a problem when there are a number of computer users in a household because they can't all access the live programmes at the same time.

growstuff, No intention of patronising you, but usually there is a knee jerk reaction of horror if you refer to anything to do with the Nazis, that does not encompass the Holocaust - and with good reason - , so I felt I had to deal with that before I talked about their capacity for organisation, especially in keeping their finger on what was happening in the homes and workplaces of the ordinary German.

growstuff this is a Scotland wide intranet, funded by the Scottish Govt, with billions spent on developing it.
As I said I was involved from the beginning, trialling it and training staff.
In my opinion, it did not live up to its expectations, nor was it fit for purpose. I spent longer troubleshooting than actually teaching.

Elegran

GrannyRose15 The first lockdown worked while it was happening but as soon as it was lifted people went bak yto living exactly as they had previously, which wasn't enough to keep the impetus that the lockdown had given us. There was a feeling that the worst was over and we could relax and get together again. It wasn't, and we couldn't.

The time while everyone was kept at home, watching TV or the internet, should have been filled with "Public Service Announcements" getting information rammed home about how we would all have to continue taking the utmost care not to spread the virus.

But look at the graphs for the summer. There was hardly any Covid about and deaths went right down. That in spite of the fact we were continually seeing pictures of crowded beaches. Why wasn't that time used to make proper arrangements for a winter surge? The government has put billions into this crisis and yet it can't get enough staff to run the Nightingale hospitals or provide a decent health service for those who don't have Covid. Could it be perhaps that there is something fundamentally wrong with healthcare in this country? Or are we to continue to believe that everything would be alright if only we all stayed at home and didn't get ill.

M0nica

*growstuff*, No intention of patronising you, but usually there is a knee jerk reaction of horror if you refer to anything to do with the Nazis, that does not encompass the Holocaust - and with good reason - , so I felt I had to deal with that before I talked about their capacity for organisation, especially in keeping their finger on what was happening in the homes and workplaces of the ordinary German.

I still disagree with you profoundly.

I despise this government and some of the actions it's taken, such as suspending parliament and its actions on allowing charities and think tanks to speak out (about which nobody seems to give a stuff), but comparing Covid rules with either Nazism or the Stasi is offensive. Unfortunately, it's a common right-wing meme at the moment. Actions taken by a government to protect its citizens are not autocratic. Only people who are looking for an excuse to behave as they want could ever think that.

GrannyRose15

Elegran

GrannyRose15 The first lockdown worked while it was happening but as soon as it was lifted people went bak yto living exactly as they had previously, which wasn't enough to keep the impetus that the lockdown had given us. There was a feeling that the worst was over and we could relax and get together again. It wasn't, and we couldn't.

The time while everyone was kept at home, watching TV or the internet, should have been filled with "Public Service Announcements" getting information rammed home about how we would all have to continue taking the utmost care not to spread the virus.

But look at the graphs for the summer. There was hardly any Covid about and deaths went right down. That in spite of the fact we were continually seeing pictures of crowded beaches. Why wasn't that time used to make proper arrangements for a winter surge? The government has put billions into this crisis and yet it can't get enough staff to run the Nightingale hospitals or provide a decent health service for those who don't have Covid. Could it be perhaps that there is something fundamentally wrong with healthcare in this country? Or are we to continue to believe that everything would be alright if only we all stayed at home and didn't get ill.

Of course the NHS is underfunded. That's no excuse not to do what we can to avoid stretching its resources even further - and incidentally taking responsibility for protecting our own health.

What do crowded beaches have to do with anything? Firstly, many of those pictures were taken from camera angles to make the beaches look more crowded. Secondly, being in the open air, especially on beach with a breeze, didn't provide ideal conditions for transmission of the virus.

A number of surveys have shown that most transmission takes place within family homes and educational settings.