It's just been announced that we have passed 100,000 deaths.

Buttonjugs As you think we should be in lockdown until all are vaccinated how long do you think this will take Oct Nov .

Granny23

Please note that I am not trying to make a party political point here - just illustrating the effect that the application of different rules has had.

CASES PER MILLION POPULATION

England 57,615
Scotland 33,113
Wales 60259
NI 53724

ROI 38713 (for comparison)

The differences are stark and there maybe other factors at work but surely this illustrates that stricter regulations and more consistency has a significant effect on spread?

I'll take this up and make the political point Granny23 for all those blaming the public and letting the WM government off the hook.

Mortality per million in England is 1450, 5th highest in the world.

Mortality per million in Scotland is 1061, 24th highest in the world.

Scotland don't have to follow the majority of the rules that WM impose for this and thank goodness for that.

I remember, on March 23rd last year, being sent home to shield from my NHS job because deaths from Covid had reached 35! Never in my worst nightmare did I ever think we would ever reach this tragic number of deaths. Where will it end?

Septimia

I'm not going to defend the government. Lots of mistakes have been made and, as I've said before, whoever was in charge would have made at least some mistakes because it's a novel situation.

What should have happened is that all MPs, of whatever persuasion, should have been working together, not bickering in the House of Commons. They should have joined forces as soon as the gravity of the situation became apparent and they are ALL at fault for not doing this.

Good post!
A coalition would be good but that would leave no room for criticism.
The political parties are like a microcosm of the population.
Some are doing the best they can.
Others argue about what they should do pointing out errors, without saying what they would do next (not what they would have done, with hindsight).
They make money out of the situation (like those firms claiming furlough and not paying it to their staff).
They break the rules and behave inappropriately and then criticise others who are equally guilty or copy the stupidity, claiming that those who erred first make copied behaviour OK.

Sarnia

I remember, on March 23rd last year, being sent home to shield from my NHS job because deaths from Covid had reached 35! Never in my worst nightmare did I ever think we would ever reach this tragic number of deaths. Where will it end?

No one knows when it will end. The virus will not just disappear it's on every continent. Even if we closed the boarders completely it will still be out there. How do these things stop? Is it herd immunity in the end?

It’s interesting that Italy has a higher death toll per head of population yet they have had much stricter lockdowns than us.

The scientists are very clear that poor Government decision making is a major cause for the UK - they know.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55820178

Thank you Shandy57,that`s very kind of you and i too hope she has it mildly.

Alegrias1

*Will everybody just stop saying we have the highest death toll in the world*

Things are bad enough without spreading misinformation. Repeating things like this undermines the rest of your arguments.

(thanks maddyone)

For the last couple of weeks, we have had the highest death toll in the world.

That's not misinformation.

JenniferEccles

I am pleased you pointed out that fact maddyone
I was under the misapprehension that we had the most deaths per head of population so it’s good that you have explained that is not the case.

Your point is not feasible growstuff
If we ALL behaved as if we had it, nobody would be at work!

Are you suggesting that some workplaces aren't taking adequate precautions?

Of course it's feasible.

Most people don't need to go into solitary confinement, but workplaces need to make sure that workplaces are as safe as they can be.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202101/medium-969656-capture.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202101/medium-346646-capture2.png

For the last couple of weeks, we have had the highest death toll in the world.

That's not misinformation.

We had the highest daily death toll in the world in the single week up to the 17th January. Other countries such as Belgium have had lower deaths in that week but have had more deaths per head of population overall.

We do not have the highest death toll in the world, either per capita or in absolute numbers.

Ergo, misinformation. maddyone is correct. See attached from the Worldometer site.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

This is important because if people don't know the true facts behind the news, they are easier to mislead.

Yes mistakes have been made - by the government and by the people - that is - all - if not most of us. We are human - we enjoy And thrive living in a free liberal western society. As a country we may not be as obedient as those citizens in Germany or Japan. As a country we are not subject to authoritarian leaders such as in China or Russia. So how do we cope with a virus that reduces everyone to the same level of incompetence?

Alegrias1

^For the last couple of weeks, we have had the highest death toll in the world.^

That's not misinformation.

We had the highest daily death toll in the world in the single week up to the 17th January. Other countries such as Belgium have had lower deaths in that week but have had more deaths per head of population overall.

We do not have the highest death toll in the world, either per capita or in absolute numbers.

Ergo, misinformation. maddyone is correct. See attached from the Worldometer site.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

This is important because if people don't know the true facts behind the news, they are easier to mislead.

Sorry, not going to argue with you. (Sigh) Can't be bothered. Try editing your info differently. Worldometer shows quite clearly that the UK has the highest number of new cases per capita. Am about to start work and can't be bothered to do a cut and paste job.

Kandinsky

This was ( is ) a national emergency - there should have been a coalition government assembled ASAP.

Totally agree with this.

Yes, I agree with you about that growstuff. I do know how to sort on Worldometer

Number of new cases per capita isn't the same as death rate though, is it? ?‍♀‍

My DH and I both had our vaccinations last week. I think they are looking after us. My surgery has been excellent, can't fault any of it.
The 1 million deaths news is shocking but I believe people did whatever they wanted over Christmas and New Year. Some people think the rules apply to others but not to themselves. That's who I blame. Harsh but true.

Alegrias1

Yes, I agree with you about that growstuff. I do know how to sort on Worldometer

Number of new cases per capita isn't the same as death rate though, is it? ?‍♀‍

Do you think that the bickering could stop about this? We are agreed, it's very bad. There is no usefulness attached to getting indignant about where we are in the world league table for deaths.

If we have more new cases per capita it seems very likely that in a week or two we could still be having the highest number of daily deaths in the world. And people will still be confusing the two statistics.

Yes Miss. Sorry Miss.

There's lots of usefulness about trying to prevent people being given wrong information but hey, lets go with it.

BusterTank

It's so sad and my heart goes out to anyone who has lost someone . Cases are dropping because we are locked up . Once the flood gates are opened again the cases will begin to rise . Over the summer months cases will be lower because people are outside more . Come the autumn and winter we will have another spike and be back in the same situation . With the virus keeps mutating the scientist will have to come up with vaccine . The scientist didn't fore tell this amount of death and with the virus mutating they really don't have a clue what they are up against .

I'm a bit worried about this, in the above post:

With the virus keeps mutating the scientist will have to come up with vaccine .

I do hope that the poster knows that we do have a vaccine...

The scientist didn't fore tell this amount of death

Some of them certainly did, and once the first spike was over a great many people started to talk them down, questioning their modelling and and making them out to be know-nothings...

I think they may be vindicated now.

Alegrias1

Yes Miss. Sorry Miss.

There's lots of usefulness about trying to prevent people being given wrong information but hey, lets go with it.

Sorry, Alegrias, but it really seems like angels on pin heads level. What is to be gained by knowing that we rank 1st or 5th in the worlds? How is it going to change our responses? Is it going to change our responses?

I am, in other contexts, usually in agreement for the need for accuracy. But not in this one.

Sorry to have kept on talking about this but I really do think its important and relevant for how this pandemic has been reported in general.

Its a good headline for the press to say "Highest death toll in the world" but not nearly so good for sales to say "Other countries continue to have higher rates than us". So data is cherry picked to influence the behaviour and response of the public. If its not important whether we are first or fifth, why do posters keep unknowingly repeating the misleading headline?

Answer: Because it generates emotional responses.

But, no more from me. Until the next misleading headline comes out.

I am not sure that the true figures for any country will ever be accurately published. The majority who have died here are over seventy; does it not follow that many of that group would have died fairly soon in any event, but the end has been hastened? It also seems to be a given that many hospitals are putting Covid on death certificates as a post mortem is not required. No doubt many will leap to correct me, but if those are true facts, then how can we be sure of numbers? On reflection, statistics make little difference to those who have died or indeed to their grieving relatives.

According to Worldometers yesterday, it is now Gibraltar which is no 1 with deaths per capita. We are no 5.

Over 10% of deaths in the UK were under the age of 65 - which is over 10,000 people most of whom would not have otherwise died. It is tragic when anybody dies unnecessarily, particularly as many in the lower age groups had no underlying conditions.