Son and wife not having the vaccination

I do not believe this is a question of "entitlement to refuse" It is certainly the case, that, compared to Ebola or SARS, the fatality rate from Covid is low. However, you vaccinate not just for yourself but for others, as with mask-wearing. Leaving aside for a moment the lunacy of the flat-earth brigade who believe it a conspiracy, surely we should have some sense of collective responsibility - you may survive Covid, but you may be in contact with someone who is clinically vulnerable who will die or suffer permanent damage. We all remember lung cancer in people who never smoked through secondary inhalation. We are not individuals but part of a whole. Yes, there are sometimes unpleasant after-effects, none match dying on a ventilator.

People are absolutely within their rights to choose - and to be cautious.

Asking questions and wanting to see long term data about the vaccines does not make anybody a "conspiracy nutter" what a lovely turn of phrase - or an anti-vaxxer.

The covid "vaccines" are different to other vaccines.

COVID-19 mRNA vaccines work by introducing a molecule (mRNA) into the body which instructs the body’s cells to build a protein similar to those found in the virus that causes COVID-19.

Most people have no idea what an mRNA molecule is.

No scientist could tell you the LONG TERM (side) effects of the vaccine on the immune system.

Ask yourself this - why has there no been open public debate between scientists and the public about vaccine concerns - why has the UK government granted immunity to harms to all vaccine manufacturers.

I think it is selfish to refuse to have the vaccination, unless they have a very good medical need to avoid it.
You're quite right to be worried about childcare, any vaccine isn't 100% effective and they may have no symptoms. There's also the risk of mutations developing which aren't controlled by the existing vaccines.

Thank you for your replies. The argument that they put forward is that you can still get Covid and transmit it even after having the vaccination so why would you bother! They think they are both young and healthy so cant see the point of having the vaccination. However, they are big fans of their foreign holidays so I will wait and see !

I can hand them back-I too was appalled that we couldn’t get MMR as separate doses-and I understand, at that time, we were exporting single dose measles abroad. We’re practising Christians and our two daughters had all their jabs in childhood but nothing like this cocktail young babies are subjected to now. I tried THREE times to take our younger daughter for measles jab-I prayed long and hard about it as she had bad eczema-and each timethere was a valid reason why she couldn’t have it-out of date vaccine (as the nurse was drawing it up!); no doctor present at the clinic; the final time I gave up and accepted she wasn’t meant to have it.
Our elder daughter, also a Christian, a Solicitor so intelligent and her DH will
not have the covid jab either believing all the rubbish online and pouring out of USA. We have had to agree to disagree. They live nearby so we visit them indoors (windows and doors open) and they come to ours the same. We have both had both jabs so without being reckless we’re just going to gradually get on with our lives-we live by faith not fear

They've made their choice they will have to suffer the consequences of their choice

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CafeAuLait

*After hearing that you may not be able to go to the cinema or have a meal in a restaurant etc etc unless you had proof of receiving the vaccine.*

With streaming of movies and restaurant food deliveries, I wouldn't mind so much.

You are quite right CafeAuLait ... It wouldn't really bother me either or ever going to a pub/club again. The not being allowed to see my grandson would. I look after him 3 days a week. But lots are pressured because of this and their jobs.

Carolpaint.
Oh dear bad case of covid fear!
Bit ott if you ask me.

A difficult one this.

No, you are not being unreasonable.

Do you know why they are refusing the vaccination?

That might be the place to start.

They are adults and like you have the right to make their own decisions. However, they are making a decision that affects you too.

Certainly, you can tell them that you will only invite them into your garden and not into your house, and that you will not be resuming child-care, but frankly doing so is cutting off your nose to spite your face. You could end up completely estranged from them.

Now that you are vaccinated you have far more protection against the infection than before.

Could you work out a compromise with them that does not only entail outdoor meetings?

Hand disinfection, a window open whilst they are there, if it is warm enough, perhaps surgical masks worn indoors?

Or are they hard-core deniers of the infection ?

After hearing that you may not be able to go to the cinema or have a meal in a restaurant etc etc unless you had proof of receiving the vaccine.

With streaming of movies and restaurant food deliveries, I wouldn't mind so much.

Other than a few drops of the polio vaccine on a sugar cube in the 1960's, I have not had another vaccine since (until now) This one I felt pressured into. Both my adult children are pro vaccine and I felt to continue seeing my only grandchild I needed to get it. Another reason ... After hearing that you may not be able to go to the cinema or have a meal in a restaurant etc etc unless you had proof of receiving the vaccine.

All I can say is I hope they change their minds. This is a killer disease. It took my FiL just before Christmas and people are dying in awful conditions around the world.

Whatever your reservations are, the time has come to put them aside and protect others.

My SiL is a GP. I only found out last week he hasn’t had the jab. I admit I was a bit uncomfortable then having him in the house. All my family have had it and to find the only doctor not having it was astonishing. I think it’s that he can’t be bothered more than that he’s anti vaccine. He’d rather work 24/7 and earn more £s for his large bank account (do I sound bitter ? ?).

CafeAuLait

*there are higher risks with medicines we take routinely every day*

There are no medications I personally take routinely. I won't start taking any medication without a consideration of the side effects, how necessary they are and what the alternatives are. I am an avoid medications as much as possible person.

I don’t get really why anyone would choose not to be vaccinated

Previous bad experiences with a vaccine or vaccines maybe?

> I don’t get really why anyone would choose not to be vaccinated

There is the logistics of getting to a vaccination centre and back home weeks before the vaccine starts to work.

It takes much longer for the vaccine to work than for a COVID-19 infection to cause serious illness.

So, the risk of being in a taxi there and a taxi back effectively being in a small room with a stranger for quite a time not knowing who else has been in the room and having the vaccination balanced against staying at home in isolation without being vaccinated.

Which choice to make? Which choice better to have made back in January when the second wave was high?

Absolutely agree with Franbern. I have a very disabled GD and protecting her from Covid has been a nightmare for the family. They are now so relieved that life will get easier with all those involved in her care have been vaccinated. Life will never be normal for them but at least they feel less worried and safer. I have no respect for those who refuse to be vaccinated - they are being utterly selfish. Have they been vaccinated against polio, smallpox, mumps, measles, rubella, diphtheria, hepatitis? Etc etc ....if so they are not only selfish but also hypocritical and irresponsible. When they get ill from whatever - they will be relying on those who have been responsible enough to protect themselves, to look after them.

3nanny6

I am getting ready to run and hide but I just thought I would mention that I was told by a nurse doing the vaccine that certain people who are turning down the jab will be able to get the vaccine in tablet form although it will not be ready until about August, I think it is for people that have had poor reactions to other vaccines and medication.

Nothing is one hundred percent safe, read the leaflets inside you medication box, you risk driving a car every day, but no one refuses to do it.

there are higher risks with medicines we take routinely every day

There are no medications I personally take routinely. I won't start taking any medication without a consideration of the side effects, how necessary they are and what the alternatives are. I am an avoid medications as much as possible person.

I don’t get really why anyone would choose not to be vaccinated

Previous bad experiences with a vaccine or vaccines maybe?

Missingmoominmama

I wish I hadn’t had the vaccine (I’ve had both). The inflammation (and pain) in my body has got much worse since.

People have the right not to. I was unsure, but was told by work that I had to; I wish I’d just found another job tbh.

Too often employers seem to think they own people who work for them.

love0c

Humptydumpty My apologies! the under 40's. Not reading back what I type! That was my point to the OP. Clearly more info is coming out regarding these vaccines. To think just a few weeks ago they were saying 'perfectly safe for all ages'' and now??? Her son an DIL are correct in my opinion not to have any vaccine at the present time. OP should feel glad they have made this decision. I hope my adult children give them a miss.

First the under 30s, now the under 40's, what next?

I got the impression, possibly wrongly, that the age limit is not about younger people being more likely to get a blood clot but about the balance of risk of death from COVID-19 versus the risk of death from a blood clot and that older people are more at risk from COVID-19 than younger people ON AVERAGE.

But average is not everybody.

But I am not a clinician so this is just wondering and I might have got it wrong.

A man of 59 died from a blood clot after a vaccination.

So it seems to me that everybody needs to make his or her own decision as to what he or she thinks best for themselves in the circumstances as they see it.

Something being rare does not mean that it never happens. If it never happens to anybody there would not be discussion about it!

Having discussed this issue with 2 of my DDs, one is keeping a watching brief whilst the other is not going to have a vaccine. They both feel that any long term effects cannot be known and are not sure if there will be problems in the future.

They have the right to decide not to have the vaccine and as I have had both of mine I will be supporting them in their decision.

There are enough problems in the world without indulging in family arguments.

Just to add all the GCs have had the childhood vaccinations as have my DDs.

You’re not being unreasonable. Having vaccines is an easy choice given the science and history of vaccines but some people have always had to be persuaded to have them for even the most horrible viruses in the past including smallpox & polio. Relying on others to take responsibility so you don’t have to is a singularly unattractive quality in anyone. Thank goodness most people know this! I suspect peer pressure will make most of the reluctant people comply eventually if not health and safety/insurance requirements at work.
At moment we won’t have people in the house who haven’t been fully vaccinated unless there’s a genuine medical reason why they haven’t - if this puts pressure on them to step up and take proper responsibility for everyone’s health including their own then great. We have vulnerable relatives who need us to keep being careful in our exposure to infection if we’re to see them and friends who work on the NHS frontline who will only socialise with people taking care to reduce infection. Supporting them is our priority.
I’m far more concerned about protecting people who can’t have the vaccines rather than those who choose not to take responsibility of having it. Most younger people are also having the vaccine if offered so age is no excuse. We all need to play our part if we want to walk our way out of this pandemic sooner rather than later. Taking a stand on this issue isn’t unreasonable at all

Perhaps a reverse psychology may work? Those when the time comes wear a mask saying unvaccinated so we all know to avoid them?

Why should we respect their point of view? Unvaccinated people will be the reservoir for the mutations that we may not be able to vaccinate against. Unbeknown to us they will be amongst us and spreading, egoists.

I’m 68 with restricted lung capacity and would not eg voluntarily sit around a dinner table indoors with unvaccinated adults nor in close proximity outdoors. We have a family member in her forties who is anti the Covid jab and I’m afraid I won’t be inviting her to stay! Non-vaccinated people are more of a risk because they have a higher transmission rate and also contribute to the emergence of variants. Sorry, it’s selfish and stupid and you are not being unreasonable!
I’m not risk-averse, I’ll be looking after my grandchildren again once I’ve had my second jab but that’s a risk I’m willing to take. Not willing to take for an adult who has a choice.