Dominic Cummings

Callistemon

^Why on earth are so many of you so interested in what happened in other countries^.

Many of us have families living in other countries so yes, we are interested and concerned.

Of course- so have we. But for another thread, if you wish- this one is about Dominic Cummings.

Looking foreard to Peston after the news.

if you wish
I dont wish particularly as I didn't ask the question Kali2 - I merely answered *Dinahmo's question.

Perhaps you should ask her why she asked and if she wishes to start another thread?

Anyone here remember the Cummings Effect?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/06/the-cummings-effect-study-finds-public-faith-was-lost-after-aides-trip

Growstuff
Your Chinese student obviously missed this ( one of hundreds) reports.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/02/chinas-reaction-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak-violates-human-rights

Cummings ‘evidence’ in a nutshell:
if he’d been in charge, covid would not have become a crisis.

Apparently.

Urmstongran

Cummings ‘evidence’ in a nutshell:
if he’d been in charge, covid would not have become a crisis.

Apparently.

But he was the "Saviour of Brexit" Urmstongran and Brexiteers couldn't say enough about him then. Then he got Johnson into government to "get Brexit done" and now you want to knife him in the back.

Glad you're not on my side for anything important.

Actually, If Boris is responsible for the massive lash up and dithering, he was also responsible for decisive action with the appointment of Kate Bingham to run the vaccine task force, very early on in 2020.

And ... The NHS was responsible for owning masses of PPE that went out of date.
?

Previous administrations had no plan for a pandemic, it seems, surely something that should be updated and updated constantly?

Plus ... Doctors turfed people out of hospital into care homes with COVID to infect others.

There are lots of issues here,
⁉️

I voted Boris to Get Brexit done.
Cummings was part of that driving force.

Then a pandemic hit.
Different ball game entirely.

Can you understand the difference ?

Urmstongran the NHS was not responsible for out of date pandemic stock.

It is the responsibility of Public Health England, here is their own description of where they fit in:

‘We are an executive agency of the Department of Health and Social Care, and a distinct organisation with operational autonomy. ... Public Health England was established on 1 April 2013 to bring together public health specialists from more than 70 organisations into a single public health service.’

Urmstongran

I voted Boris to Get Brexit done.
Cummings was part of that driving force.

Then a pandemic hit.
Different ball game entirely.

Can you understand the difference ?

If you really are that myopic, there's nothing to be said.

MerylStreep

Growstuff
Your Chinese student obviously missed this ( one of hundreds) reports.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/02/chinas-reaction-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak-violates-human-rights

No, she and her family know perfectly well goes on in China. However, for the vast majority of citizens for the vast majority of times, life goes on perfectly normally. They're not quite the second-class brains and downtrodden peasants some seem to think. People object when Israelis are blamed for the actions of the Israeli government. Why don't they put their thinking caps on and realise it's the same for most people in most countries?

Callistemon

^My Chinese student regularly communicated with her relatives still in China and she didn't know anything about that. (And, yes, she is ware how the Chinese government treat dissidents.)^
One student.

Some of us heard different stories from very reliable sources who have families in Wuhan.

Their lockdown did work, however.

No, not just one student but I'm not going to list them.

In any case, this is about the UK and what's happened here.

I am no fan of Dominic Cummings but felt that when he was questioned about giving advice to Boris Johnson the implication was that it was his fault that his advice wasn’t taken. Indeed Cummings actually apologised on more than one occasion of not being forceful enough, or that’s how I understood it. Now we can all give advice but whether the person we’re advising takes any notice is down to them. Being Prime Minister is not just a nominal position it needs someone who can listen to expert advice and consider whether they should act upon it. It would appear that Boris Johnson was not prepared to take advice not only from Dominic Cummings but also from members of SAGE including Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty. It would be very interesting to hear what the two of them have got to say about it. Most of what we are being told we know already and it is true. BJ was on holiday in February when he should have been at No 10, he locked down far too late not only once but twice and if Matt Hancock had been employed anywhere else he would have been sacked seeing the hash he has made of his post. Hearing it all makes you realise what a ragbag of incompetent idiots we have governing this country. As for the vaccine let us remember it was invented by scientists not Boris Johnson and thank goodness he wasn’t in charge of the vaccine programme.

I think that Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty have got a lot to answer to as well, because they were happy to stand next to Johnson and back him up.Only once or twice do I remember them picking him up on something he had said at the briefings. I’m trying to remember when they were and what they were about.

Urmstongran

Cummings ‘evidence’ in a nutshell:
if he’d been in charge, covid would not have become a crisis.

Apparently.

No wrong

What Cummings actually said was that Johnson is unfit to be PM

Hancock should have been sacked for a many reasons and constantly lied.

It was crazy the he -Cummings was in such a senior position, he was not “smart” enough.

I think that reflecting on Cummings and yesterday’s events we need to sort of understand stuff that he didn’t say, as much as what he did say.

So Sunak, who came in for much praise was not criticised for the muddle over the furlough scheme, nor was he criticised for undoubtedly being responsible for a spike in the virus as a result of the ridiculous “eat out to help out” scheme. At the very least this was very poor judgement and at worse responsible for many deaths.

Other ministers were ignored, but on the other hand this was about covid so you would expect the Health minister and the Prime Minister to be the ones under scrutiny.

I think this was pure theatre and one in which the star player did everything he could to get his message across of pure revenge.

But, and this is a big but, so much of what he said, so many of us recognise as confirmation of what we suspected. We must proceed with caution. Confirmation is needed from various other sources.

If indeed it is true then the government is not fit to lead us another day, let alone another 3 years.

?

Cummings is a self serving scumbag, so whatever he says will be water off a duck’s back. 30% of the electorate vote for the Tories, 30% don’t bother to vote and 40% vote for other parties, so our voting system means we are condemned to this bunch of incompetents for what seems to be evermore.

Who first came up with the facile “hindsight”excuse ?

“ One unapologetic liar calls out another unapologetic liar for lying. Has our politics been brought so low? What have these psychopaths reduced our country to?”

Exactly.

Regardless of it being Cummings giving evidence yesterday we, ourselves, know people were sent untested into Care Homes. We, ourselves, know that Johnson did not attend the urgent meetings of Cobra. We, ourselves, know the attitude of Johnson towards the virus. We, ourselves, know that they did not lock down early enough. All this was known before yesterday and it needs complete clarification.

Now IS the right time; Johnson cannot keep denying us. The public wants answers. Norway and Sweden have already begun theirs. Neena Modi, professor of neonatal medicine, and a panellist on The informal People’s Covid Inquiry, “If ever there was a time to ask questions, it has got to be now.” This has to be about more than blame. We have to understand the reorganisation required of Public Health, the NHS and of Care.

I think he is a snake and what I saw of it was a man scorned, he even lied about his trip in lockdown. He was part of the decision making. It was unchartered waters, no one knew exactly how to handle it whilst protecting the economy. I wish he would crawl back to where he came from. There will be a review next year and we can learn lessons from that. I will not listen to a bitter and twisted ex employee.

Next year........way too late.

Shropshirelass

I think he is a snake and what I saw of it was a man scorned, he even lied about his trip in lockdown. He was part of the decision making. It was unchartered waters, no one knew exactly how to handle it whilst protecting the economy. I wish he would crawl back to where he came from. There will be a review next year and we can learn lessons from that. I will not listen to a bitter and twisted ex employee.

Completely agree.