Dominic Cummings

The poor people released from hospital into care homes without being tested and the subsequent deaths. Treated with total disregard and left to die. This is shameful and I hope the government is held responsible for these unnecessary deaths.

Vickysponge

Shropshirelass

I think he is a snake and what I saw of it was a man scorned, he even lied about his trip in lockdown. He was part of the decision making. It was unchartered waters, no one knew exactly how to handle it whilst protecting the economy. I wish he would crawl back to where he came from. There will be a review next year and we can learn lessons from that. I will not listen to a bitter and twisted ex employee.

Completely agree.

Both muddling the message - which must be scrutinised with care - with the messenger, which we can all agree is not the best form of human being we may come across.

Cummings is a rat no doubt about it, BJ will not be having any “special advisors” any time soon, however, many less lives would have been lost if a tighter isolation and lockdown had been used. As for Cummings “getting Brexit done” that’s rubbish, the EU we’re running the show from day one, they got exactly what they wanted, the UK backed down on all the red lines.

He was a distraction that was not needed, since he was sacked the government started to make sensible decisions and I do give them credit for that

Et tu Brute!

The review may be best left to next year, and review there should be, but we are not yet out of this pandemic and there may be more to review over the next 6 months. I can’t see Johnson going even then unless we end up with Gove .............. and Cummings. It is always easy to be wise after an event. I seem to remember either Vallence or Whitty advocating herd immunity and then it was suddenly all turn about. Can we really blame everything on one man, Johnson?

Shropshirelass

I think he is a snake and what I saw of it was a man scorned, he even lied about his trip in lockdown. He was part of the decision making. It was unchartered waters, no one knew exactly how to handle it whilst protecting the economy. I wish he would crawl back to where he came from. There will be a review next year and we can learn lessons from that. I will not listen to a bitter and twisted ex employee.

All that is irrelevant. We need and inquiry and we need it now.

Vickysponge

Shropshirelass

I think he is a snake and what I saw of it was a man scorned, he even lied about his trip in lockdown. He was part of the decision making. It was unchartered waters, no one knew exactly how to handle it whilst protecting the economy. I wish he would crawl back to where he came from. There will be a review next year and we can learn lessons from that. I will not listen to a bitter and twisted ex employee.

Completely agree.

You won’t listen to what he says even with evidence ?

I don’t think anyone would disagree that DC is a rather unsavoury character, but it doesn’t mean his criticisms aren’t valid, especially given the evidence,.

25Avalon

Et tu Brute!

The review may be best left to next year, and review there should be, but we are not yet out of this pandemic and there may be more to review over the next 6 months. I can’t see Johnson going even then unless we end up with Gove .............. and Cummings. It is always easy to be wise after an event. I seem to remember either Vallence or Whitty advocating herd immunity and then it was suddenly all turn about. Can we really blame everything on one man, Johnson?

Johnson, Hancock, Williamson, Sunak....

“We must hang together or surely we shall hang separately.’

One of the most damning pieces of evidence, which we know absolutely to be true, is the way the care section was treated.

I can definitely remember the news that hospitals were being cleared to make room for the covid patients. I can definitely remember that care homes were asked to take in the patients.

What the carers and other residents were perfectly entitled to expect was that they were protected from contracted covid which would almost certainly kill the elderly and the carers extremely ill if not death.

The evidence we were presented with is that neither the hospital patients were tested for covid, nor advise and PPE made available to the carers.

I think I’d just like to know n the fullness of time how many people died with Covid rather than from it.

Urmstongran

I think I’d just like to know n the fullness of time how many people died with Covid rather than from it.

If you think about it, that is a relatively easy thing to roughly find out.

We know the average death rate for any given year, and we know how many deaths in the year since say April 2020.

Exactly Whitewave- and one thing that is absolutely true, is that elderly residents of Care Homes, were sent back to said homes from hospital, without any testing, and without staff being provided with adequate PPE. Sent back therefore to pass Covid on to others, residents and staff.

Will anyone here deny this?

So would you not say we had 127,000 Covid deaths then WW?

Urmstongran

So would you not say we had 127,000 Covid deaths then WW?

So official data says in U.K.

4.47 million cases of covid

128k deaths

If you wish to disagree feel free to do so.

I’m inclined to go with the official data myself?

There were over 695.8 thousand deaths in the United Kingdom in 2020, compared with 604 thousand in 2019.

So by my calculation we had 90 thousand excess deaths.

www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Just speaking medically, it’s actually quite hard to say whether people die of or with diseases. The disease causes an organ/organs to fail but doesn’t actually cause death of itself.

My sister recovered from Covid but died when her heart valve became infected and her heart failed. The death certificate says heart failure but it wouldn’t have happened if she hadn’t caught Covid.

On the other hand another relative in the last stages of life with pneumonia caught Covid and is counted in the statistics, even though he would have died within days of old age.

It’s going to be difficult to get anything very accurate from the statistics, I think, except that a large number of people died prematurely.

I agree with you Peasblossom. It’s probably always going to be impossible to know the numbers exactly, but we do know that many people died prematurely.

I have no respect for Dominic Cummings or anything he has to say.

I'm pretty sure it has never been normal for 17 people in a couple of day period to die in a single care home (or similar). These scenes as they played out have been devastating for everyone concerned, families, staff. When arguing about statistics we need remember how horrific this all was.

Was that on the Isle of Skye JaneJudge? I seem to remember it.

If so, Nicola Sturgeon and her team got it wrong too, like Boris.

No, it was 10 deaths there. Just looked it up.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/20/skye-care-home-hit-10-coronavirus-deaths-keep-licence-hc-one-home-farm

The 'with' or 'due to' covid19 discussion is an interesting one and used by covid deniers amongst other groups ( not to suggest you are one Urm). I am astounded to find this morning that the revelations of yesterday's hearing are not getting nearly as much coverage as the tedious day after day after day coverage of the Bashir/Diana interview which went on all week

Care Homes in all four nations of the UK had similar scenarios, as healthcare is devolved I do hope that the Health Secretaries of the other three nations will also be called to give their accounts.

Urmstongran

Was that on the Isle of Skye JaneJudge? I seem to remember it.

If so, Nicola Sturgeon and her team got it wrong too, like Boris.

No I was referencing a home near to me in England. Similar scenarios played out everywhere though, you are right about that

I know someone whose father was ill in hospital and they had been told he only had a few weeks to live. He then caught Covid before he died. The death certificate stated quite clearly what he died of which was not covid, but stated with Covid, so he became a covid statistic against his family’s wishes.

There were many others the same. From what I’ve read you can probably deduct a third of overall covid ‘deaths’ in this way. Still very high.

Mistakes were made. I don’t think anyone could deny that. I don’t think Boris Johnson was the right man for the job so I’m not defending him.

But apparently Dominic Cummings knew exactly what should be done, but nobody would listen to him. He was the good guy all along.

This is the man who arrogantly thought that the rules didn’t apply to him and lied and lied about his actions. How do we know what truth and what’s lie?