Let us hope that Johnson has finally learned some lessons.

The question is

Should we play it safe even though we may be proved wrong?

Or

Open up as planned with the risks that we know it will bring?

The NHS is asking that the government, in its considerations, does not make the decision that will put further pressure on the NHS as it has so much to catch up on, and trying to save lives from early cancer detection, heart operations etc.

India should have been put on the red list when Pakistan and Bangladesh were, in my opinion. Not doing so was a grave mistake.

I’m quite happy to go along with opening up more ( although I won’t change how I’m living) as long as the government continues with hands face space ventilate. Once those things are dropped it will be difficult to get them back.

So emerging data on the transmissibility of the Indian variant is pointing towards it being wise to delay the opening up on 21 June and delay until perhaps the school summer holidays when transmission rates will of course be lower.

Scientists are also advising that restrictions on international travel be firmed up over the summer.

The fact of this delay and the spread of the Indian variant is entirely Johnson’s responsibility
.

The delay in closing the border to the Indian sub-continent for 3 weeks is entirely down to Johnson’s responsibility, and his decision to “wait and see”

Watch and wait to see if Johnson takes advise to delay opening up.

What emerging data is this please WWM2, do you have a source?

Also, which scientists are talking about firming up travel restrictions?

Alegrias1

What emerging data is this please WWM2, do you have a source?

Also, which scientists are talking about firming up travel restrictions?

This? From the BBC website

Another leading scientific adviser to the government has urged caution this morning over the 21 June easing of Covid restrictions.

Prof Adam Finn, from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, says officials should have a clear picture of the pandemic before such moves are made.

Speaking on ITV's Good Morning Britain, he says that while the country's vaccination programme "will ultimately give us... protection" against the Indian coronavirus variant, key markers in the community should be taken into account before the next phase of reopening.

" I think it's unfortunate that everyone's got this particular date in their head, because really what we need to do is understand how things are going and adjust accordingly," Prof Finn says.

"What we've done wrong in the past is left it too late and delayed making decisions, ultimately pushed them back and then ended up with large waves of infection."

And this

A scientist advising the government says lockdown relaxations planned for 21 June in England should be delayed by a "few weeks "
Professor Ravi Gupta says there are early signs the UK is in a new wave of Covid-19 and more intelligence should be gathered
Twickenham Rugby Stadium has opened as England's largest vaccination centre, as the government tries to speed up the rollout of jabs
Around a million households fear losing their homes as England's coronavirus eviction ban comes to an end on Monday, a charity says
And France has banned all non-essential travel from the UK to try to stop the spread of the Indian variant

Both those quotations are about scientists urging caution before moving on to lifting the restrictions. Which is of course the right thing and is what ministers have been setting the tone for, for a few days now.

But there is no emerging data about transmissibility, the transmissibility is not defined yet and JVT said it would be this week before we knew more. And there's nothing in those quotes about scientists recommending "firming up" travel restrictions.

When I read statements like "emerging data" I tend to expect that new data has emerged. Which is why I asked about sources.

Until we know, then we are still just saying that Johnson has performed badly in the past and we hope he doesn't do it again.

I'm no fan of BJ but isn't he continuing to assess the situation before opening up on the 21st? It was a pity that people ignored lockdown and travelled to India, often as family groups, despite knowing how serious the situation was there. I heard a number interviewed and tbh it was not essential travel. I do think we should all be doing our bit to keep ourselves and others safe but even if we don't open up fully on the 21st, there will still be those who ignore the rules and refuse to be vaccinated. I don't think it's possible to please everyone nor is it possible to get everyone to behave responsibly and it's also impossible to accurately predict the future course of this pandemic, much easier to criticise with hindsight though.

This is another case of the government being criticised over whichever decision is made.

As the PM has repeatedly stated, four factors need to be met before any further lifting of restrictions can happen.

They were expecting cases to rise once pubs and restaurants were able to open indoors so the current increase in numbers is not unduly worrying, especially as hospital admissions haven’t risen to a worrying level.

They will also be looking at data to see how transmissible the Indian virus is.

All in all there is a very sensible plan in place.

We have a Prime Minister who, as a result of previous dithering and pushing back against scientific advise at both the first and second wave, was responsible for thousands of deaths. Who because of his narcissistic character, which is image-obsessed, contradictory and indecisive, “changed his mind day after day” as scientists tried to get him to make a decision, whilst the virus seeded itself throughout the U.K.

The same thing has happened again as a result of the failure to close the borders in a timely manner., as a result of which there are now early signs of a third wave.

I would have expected for at least some Tory supporters to be sufficiently disturbed by this grave set of charges to at the very least calling for this be investigated in a timely manner in order that we can take remedial action in order to avoid further catastrophes. But it seems that the Tories are willing to accept anything as long as “their man” however flawed, is the PM. The normal criteria of a leader as competent, professional, integrity and trustworthiness is completely absent in Johnson, or in the expectations of Tory supporters.
So many Tories must have held their noses when voting for him, but regardless whether they did or not they must surely hold some responsibility for the deaths and suffering of so many.

I’m just enjoying my new freedoms in the hope that more will follow soon. We will find out in 2 weeks when scientists will have gathered enough data to make informed recommendations.

I know we only let uk nationals back in but they obviously didnt all isolate as they should have done

Other countries have required isolation in hotels, at the individual's expense.

Urmstongran

I’m just enjoying my new freedoms in the hope that more will follow soon. We will find out in 2 weeks when scientists will have gathered enough data to make informed recommendations.

Aren’t we all?

No problem with the data the scientists collect at all, but a massive problem persuading dithering Johnson - that is the main issue.

There is an emerging pattern here which only dawned on me when it was mentioned that when Hancock announced the target of doing 100,000 tests various things had to be manipulated to fit in with that figure. I feel that the government are setting targets and then having to fit things around those targets and are under pressure to do things by set dates. It reminds me of a retail company setting sales targets and I think it clouds their judgement. Ok, I realise that there needs to be a timeline of some kind but once people have been given dates it’s more difficult to back track even if backtracking is the sensible option. And I still remember Johnson saying it would all be over in 12 weeks last year which shows how knowledgeable he was back then and I dingy think he’s changed a great deal from then.

Data relating to covid in schools.

twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1398757529430208522/photo/1

Is it dithering or is it a PM carefully studying the data given to him and then, quite sensibly taking his time in deciding the best course of action ?
The latter isn’t it?

Dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn’t springs to mind yet again.

It’s worth remembering that every leader in every country has made mistakes over the best way to deal with the virus, balancing protecting lives and livelihoods.

Not every leader in every country. Only the ones that people wish to compare the U.K’s track record to. By the way the new word fir dithering is wibble wobbling as used in Parliament by the PM.

"Dithering" always suggesting to me somebody going "Let's do this, oh no, let's do that, oh, I can't decide.

I don't think he dithers at all. He knows what he wants to do and has to be dissuaded from a course of action by people with evidence and facts.

I wonder why the schools data has been suppressed?

Dithering as in constantly changing his mind.

Johnson plays to the gallery, always has. Likes to be popular so will adjust the sails accordingly.

Premiership by media.

I think Boris has to weigh up Covid restrictions versus opening up (shops, restaurants) for the economy. The mayor in Porto was enthusiastic about hosting the Championship Cup Final wasn’t he? He said it was so important for the economy.

The Army’s out & about door to door in Bolton today offering jabs. Translators are with them. Seems we are doing all we can to up these vaccinations and protect as many people as possible. The numbers in Bolton are coming down. 7 days ago there were 450 in 100,000 people with Covid. Today it is 382:100,000. Going in the right direction!

So in 4 weeks who knows? Hopefully further unlocking and our freedoms back.

Numbers of deaths are low. The NHS bed situation is stable - not overwhelmed. I think it’s looking good.

I presume the people who had covid (but without anyone knowing this) and who were discharged to care homes and then died, had gone into hospital with other health issues (possibly ones that were going to be causes of their deaths anyway, regardless of covid, (the average of death from covid during the early part of the pandemic in UK was higher than the usual average) and caught covid in hospital. I've yet to unferstand how that was fault of the PM, of any PM.

...people ignored lockdown and travelled to India, often in family groups.....

Absolutely! The government were far too late in putting India on the red list, and therefore allowed this new variant to enter and take hold in Britain. This simple fact annoys me intensely.
However, the ignorant and selfish people who travelled to India when it was illegal to travel or take holidays, even in the UK absolutely astound me. The level of selfishness that it takes to take your entire family on holiday when holidays are actually illegal is simply astounding. Frankly words fail me. I wonder if they’ve all been slapped with the £5000 fine as appropriate. Somehow I doubt it.

I have just been listening to a very patient newsreader on the BBC reading out messages sent in. Many of them sound like children stamping their feet. "But they said they would", "I want" "I'll do it my own way".

I find it stunning that a part of our society has so little insight into the issues involved.

As for Boris keeping an eye on it - isn't he off on a mini-moon?

We will recover if we take the time needed and help other countries - almost whatever the government does, thankfully.

Yes some countries have fared better than us in terms of deaths but unfortunately we are an unhealthy nation.
We are the second fattest nation in Europe second only I believe to tiny little Malta.
It’s been well documented that obesity is one of the major risk factors for dying from covid (plus many other illnesses of course) yet still too many people are in denial about their weight.
Boris Johnson is not responsible for that is he?

It’s not as simple as just looking at deaths per head of population.
Many other factors play their part.