Austria puts unvaccinated into lockdown

Shall we make a date to revisit this in 6 months Jennifer Eccles, we should know by then if the UK approach has prevented more deaths than the European approach?

Perhaps we should be comparing the percentages of vaccine hesitancy between different countries, as I believe it’s a relatively low figure here.

I agree with Urmstongran that our government was sensible in opening up the country in the summer to allow natural immunity to build up alongside the vaccines.

The latest news is that all adults here are to be offered a booster over the coming weeks which should help enormously as winter sets in.

That’s it I think Alegrias1. However you look at it though, Germany has fared better than the UK so far on every aspect apart from the vaccination rate, I find it frustrating when people post sensationalist headlines which hide the truth.

Thanks Casdon.

Looks like its absolute numbers, I was looking at rates.

Both ways are valid, of course.

Key figures for the most impacted countries worldwide
as of November 18, 2021Total infectionsActive infectionsDeathsRecoveries
World255,772,10219,455,3525,139,858231,176,892
USA48,287,9259,239,157787,98438,260,784
India34,478,517128,762464,62333,885,132
Brazil21,977,661170,863611,89821,194,900
UK9,675,0581,587,711143,3607,943,987
Russia9,182,5381,040,618259,0847,882,836
Turkey8,480,986436,57774,2027,970,207
France7,330,958184,203118,3217,028,434
Iran6,057,893195,181128,5315,734,181
Argentina5,310,33418,495116,3135,175,526
Germany5,169,657506,54998,9084,564,200
It was from Statista - Facts and Figures. Sorry it’s jumped about a bit when I copied it.

Interested in where you get the fifth highest impacted country in the whole of the world stat from Casdon.

According to Worldometer, we're 18th in cases per million and 30th in deaths per million. At present, according to Our World in Data, we have the 18th highest daily infection rate.

None of it is good, but not as bad as your data seems to suggest.

Be careful when making assumptions - to date Germany has had 98,908 deaths compared with 143,698 in the UK. They have had 5, 169,657 infections compared with 9,675,058 in the UK. Their infection rate is still lower than it is in the UK. This for a country which has 18million more population.
Their vaccination rate is lower at the moment, but with typical German efficiency they will sort that out. I would bet that in 6 months time they will still compare favourably with this country- we are by no means out of the woods yet, and the scientists are repeatedly saying that they don’t know what will happen over the winter, although they hope we won’t be as badly hit as elsewhere. I don’t want any more deaths anywhere, but saying that the UK is doing well just isn’t true, as we are the fifth highest impacted country in the whole of the world.

This is not a good place to be with winter approaching, and it explains why England dropped all restrictions in July. An important point I feel.

While many countries are facing their first major wave of the Delta variant against a backdrop of waning immunity and cold weather, England built up a wall of resistance to Covid in the mild summer and autumn months, which has now been fortified by twelve million booster shots.

This was always the plan, a fact some Government critics conveniently seem to have forgotten.

My understanding of the different situations in Austria and Germany compared to the UK is that our booster programme has been more successful and we have a higher percentage who’ve had a booster than in other countries. I did read the figures this morning but can’t find then now! Rates of those over 12 double jabbed are similar, it’s the rates of boosters that vary quite considerably so in the UK we have more people with enhanced protection and only 6% of NHS beds are for Covid patients.

I do hope I’ve not over simplified things, I’m struggling a bit to get my head around the figures at the moment, so many different charts!

From the Telegraph this morning:

“Germany's acting health minister Jens Spahn has issued his strongest warning yet to the country's vaccine holdouts as Europe's largest economy desperately tries to avoid another lockdown.

"Probably by the end of this winter, as is sometimes cynically said, pretty much everyone in Germany will be vaccinated, cured or dead," Mr Spahn said, blaming "the very contagious Delta variant".

"That is why we so urgently recommend vaccination," he added.

Speaking at a news conference this morning amidst an increasingly devastating wave of infections, Mr Spahn said that only "social distancing and political resolve" can break the fourth wave.

Germany is facing the reintroduction of coronavirus restrictions as cases begin to rise steeply. Germany's vaccination uptake remains relatively low, with just 68 per cent of the population fully inoculated.”

Vaccination is indeed for the benefit of the whole of society as well as for the benefit of the individual. I dread to think where we’d be now if these vaccines hadn’t been produced. The number of dead would have been astronomical, and it’s high enough now. Thank goodness for the vaccinations and for the millions of people who have had the good sense to get themselves vaccinated.

It seems to me that people who won't be vaccinated (except obviously medical exemptions) are thinking only about themselves and their personal wants and not about the wellbeing of society as a whole.

It was indeed a long sentence Alegrias but I think it’s true. If our Prime Minister regularly doesn’t wear a mask, then it gives out a message to others. As he had Covid so seriously, I’m surprised he isn’t more careful. I also had serious Covid, and I’m quite afraid of catching it again.

Lincslass I love your ‘stamp their little tootsies and spout no-one is telling me what to do’
That about sums it up. Even in GN posters wrote how they thought this rule or that rule was silly and how they’d ignored the rule and they were fine. Out on the street you could see that in action.
I do blame the government for not following their own rules, but even more for giving people a chance to use the whiny ‘Well he did it first’ excuse, in order to do whatever they want instead of making an effort to protect others and themselves.

And there are people who don't follow the health advice closely, and see the PM of the country behaving in a particular way, and think that must be acceptable, because after all if a senior member of the government doesn't think he should be wearing a mask, that must be OK?

(that was a very long sentence )

Barmeyoldbat

Yes Maddy I would also like to see more restrictions with people having to ear a mask on public transport and in any indoor public place. But while we have an incompetent PM who had to be had to be asked 3 times on a hospital visit to put a mask on, then I am afraid I am also with you on pigs might fly.

Well there are sheep that will follow what an Person does, or there are people who are aware of what said person does is wrong and make their own choices to wear a mask. Seriously, even mandatory mask wearing was food for the antiestablishment to stamp their little tootsies and spout no one is telling me what to to do.

I’m not against vaccine passports either. We had to have them to enter Greece in September.
People who had a reaction to a vaccine, such as dragonfly’s DiL have a medical reason for not having the vaccine and as such would be given a passport. After all we had people who claimed they were unable to wear a simple face mask when it was obligatory. Other countries had none of that, it was wear the mask or stay outside. But the UK allowed medical reasons for not wearing a mask, so it follows it would be allowed to not have had the vaccine for medical reasons if a vaccine passport were ever to be introduced. It won’t be though, not here.

Hetty58

I don't see why people should be given the freedom to go about infecting others with a potentially deadly virus.

Normally, I'm all for freedom of choice and against anything compulsory. Still, in present (abnormal) circumstances, I think the unvaccinated (rather than the vulnerable) should have their freedom restricted. Access to bars, restaurants, hotels, air travel, indoor events, gyms and pools etc. isn't necessary for life, after all.

Responsible folk have been vaccinated, not just for their own safety, but for the welfare of others, too. They're less likely to catch the virus. If they do, they're less likely to transmit it:

www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

HETTY58 can you please tell me why you think that anybody that is unvaccinated will be infected therefore not allowed to move around freely ..what evidence do you base this on ?

There are people with a genuine reason for not wanting the vaccine who are not stupid.
My DiL will not have a second or third as after her first Moderna vaccination she developed cranial palsy. Her eye became paralyzed and she had terrible migraines. This lasted 2 months.
Of course they will not say it was down to the vaccine but they cannot disprove it and she is now naturally wary.
What should they do with her - slap her in prison?

Cannot believe what Austria is doing. How are they going to enforce compulsory vaccination?
Kick in doors, pin people down and inject them? This has serious human rights issues.

I’m not against vaccine passports - had to show ours at the theatre ( London) .

I don't see why people should be given the freedom to go about infecting others with a potentially deadly virus.

Normally, I'm all for freedom of choice and against anything compulsory. Still, in present (abnormal) circumstances, I think the unvaccinated (rather than the vulnerable) should have their freedom restricted. Access to bars, restaurants, hotels, air travel, indoor events, gyms and pools etc. isn't necessary for life, after all.

Responsible folk have been vaccinated, not just for their own safety, but for the welfare of others, too. They're less likely to catch the virus. If they do, they're less likely to transmit it:

www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

There have been peaceful protests in Australia this weekend.

There is apparently rioting in Vienna tonight. It’s not going to be easy for the politicians to impose these restrictions, in my opinion.

I think they intend to issue them with hefty fines.