Could Omicron actually be a good thing?

I don't think that we can compare a possible outcome in the UK with what is happening in South Africa, the main reason being that the average age of their population is only 28.

I also heard on the tv that someone had Omicron and wasn't particularly ill until 2 to 3 weeks later. We really cannot be complacent.

I also think that until the vast majority of people throughout the world have been properly vaccinated we will continue to have proper precautions.

Urmstongran

I’ve had my jabs & boosters. Sensible.
I think I’m just fed up of the ‘maybe’ ‘could’ ‘possible’ ‘perhaps’ rhetoric on the news about this new milder variant. We will be frightened of our own shadows soon.

Evidence is growing that current vaccinations don't offer good protection against Omicron. The reason words like "maybe", "could", "possible" and "perhaps" are used are because it's too early to know for sure. Scientists can't produce new vaccines overnight.

Your last sentence is gaslighting. Being cautious and adult isn't being frightened of one's own shadow.

Well that is a depressing thought. Dinahmo. It was on the news a couple of days ago that many South Africans don’t want the vaccine. It’s not down to a shortage per se.

Ergo we will never be rid of Covid for years.
I’d better get used to it.

Perhaps I could stop reading the papers and watching the news.

It’s not gaslighting growstuff it’s an observation and an opinion.

Evidence is growing that current vaccinations don't offer good protection against Omicron.

Got any links about that growstuff?

Even chrischirp was being optimistic yesterday.

All the interviews I have seen/heard have been fairly positive regarding the efficacy of vaccines against Omicron variant, particularly in respect of Pfizer boosters.

“Urmstongran ” - I’m testing daily as I’m having osteopathy twice weekly and also go swimming twice a week whilst waiting for a hip replacement, so wouldn’t want to put others at risk . I also visit a housebound friend weekly although decided not to this week. I always test before visiting her . It is recommended we all test twice weekly and I would be happy to pay if necessary .

Does anyone think that there isn't the same resistance to anything as there used to be ?

Only testing at the moment as my family have Covid. I don’t usually test so often just prior to the osteopath visit as it’s very close contact , and when I visit my housebound friend .

GrannyGravy13

All the interviews I have seen/heard have been fairly positive regarding the efficacy of vaccines against Omicron variant, particularly in respect of Pfizer boosters.

Not true, I'm afraid.

People are still being recommended to have vaccinations (especially boosters), but it is highly unlikely that any of the vaccinations offer the same protection against Omicron. There have been about six studies and only one of them was optimistic.

Urmstongran

It’s not gaslighting growstuff it’s an observation and an opinion.

Yes, it is. You're suggesting people are going to be frightened of their own shadows. It's the equivalent of school kid goading, when a child is called "chicken" for not wanting to risk running across a busy road.

Alegrias1

^Evidence is growing that current vaccinations don't offer good protection against Omicron.^

Got any links about that growstuff?

Even chrischirp was being optimistic yesterday.

I'll ask. I was told about them in a discussion this morning, but wasn't given the sources.

growstuff

Urmstongran

It’s not gaslighting growstuff it’s an observation and an opinion.

Yes, it is. You're suggesting people are going to be frightened of their own shadows. It's the equivalent of school kid goading, when a child is called "chicken" for not wanting to risk running across a busy road.

Ridiculous interpretation of Urmstongrans words.

I know several people who have stopped listening/watching news items because they have become extremely frightened to the extent that they will not leave their own homes.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

All the interviews I have seen/heard have been fairly positive regarding the efficacy of vaccines against Omicron variant, particularly in respect of Pfizer boosters.

Not true, I'm afraid.

People are still being recommended to have vaccinations (especially boosters), but it is highly unlikely that any of the vaccinations offer the same protection against Omicron. There have been about six studies and only one of them was optimistic.

I'm going to disagree, even though I know growstuff you have specialist knowledge in this area.

Its unfair to say things like it is highly unlikely that any of the vaccinations offer the same protection against Omicron without qualifying what that means. Even if the protection is reduced, it is still effective. All I have seen so far is in respect of antibody protection against infection, nothing about protection against hospitalisation or severe illness.

We're not back at the start. We have effective vaccines and we have other methods of managing this pandemic now. I try not to be too pessimistic or too optimistic in what I post. But there are already threads on Mumsnet with people asking what's the point of getting the vaccine if it doesn't work against Omicron, so contributing to that perception is not fair.

Disclaimer again: I'm not an expert on this and I don't have any specialist knowledge. I just don't like scaring people.

We once had some of the worst industries and workplaces imaginable where health and safety came bottom of the list.

I'm thinking of an uncle of mine who worked at a colliery for years. He died many years ago at aged 83, a good age at the time but never suffered the ills of miners---no chest or lung problems etc. went to his football matches every other week in all weathers by bus as he didn't drive and was generally fit.

Then there was brother and I as kids enduring billowing smoke from the fire if the wind blew in the wrong direction. Standing on bridges while a steam train went by and we got a face full of smoke from its chimney.
These are instances that would kill nowadays which is why we now have clean air though sadly it hasn't improved those who suffer many chest/ lung problems.
Just what causes all these ills with such advancements in industry and technology ?

We need to know why so many young fit people have died.

Sadly, we hear of people losing their lives to this pandemic but the exact cause of death has never been mentioned.

I think the speculation is running ahead faster than the knowledge at the moment. This is what Mark Drakeford said in the Covid review at lunchtime today:

"If we are at the fortunate end of the spectrum, that it's a milder illness [and] that the booster program gives you a significant defence against it, then the models show that the impact will be very real because of the speed, but that is probably absorbable by our public services.

"If it turns out that the variant is as severe or more severe than delta, if the vaccine escape is greater than we would have hoped for, then models will show that that impact will be much more difficult to manage. We're not at a point to where the modeling is sufficiently secure across to know which of those it will be.

"[It is a] spectrum between it being difficult but manageable to being difficult and additional actions needed in order to manage it."

All the UK governments being sufficiently concerned to ramp up the covid measures in the interim is an indicator of what they think may happen I think. Our part is to do what we are told.

EllanVannin

We need to know why so many young fit people have died.

Sadly, we hear of people losing their lives to this pandemic but the exact cause of death has never been mentioned.

Yes, it has.

Alegrias1

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

All the interviews I have seen/heard have been fairly positive regarding the efficacy of vaccines against Omicron variant, particularly in respect of Pfizer boosters.

Not true, I'm afraid.

People are still being recommended to have vaccinations (especially boosters), but it is highly unlikely that any of the vaccinations offer the same protection against Omicron. There have been about six studies and only one of them was optimistic.

I'm going to disagree, even though I know growstuff you have specialist knowledge in this area.

Its unfair to say things like it is highly unlikely that any of the vaccinations offer the same protection against Omicron without qualifying what that means. Even if the protection is reduced, it is still effective. All I have seen so far is in respect of antibody protection against infection, nothing about protection against hospitalisation or severe illness.

We're not back at the start. We have effective vaccines and we have other methods of managing this pandemic now. I try not to be too pessimistic or too optimistic in what I post. But there are already threads on Mumsnet with people asking what's the point of getting the vaccine if it doesn't work against Omicron, so contributing to that perception is not fair.

Disclaimer again: I'm not an expert on this and I don't have any specialist knowledge. I just don't like scaring people.

I'd rather be realistic. There have been at least six studies. Pfizer has produced one with reasonably optimistic results. The truth is that more research is needed. The jury is still out. Scientists are working flat out to find out what's going on and to formulate new vaccines. Current vaccines probably do offer some protection, but the fact is that nobody knows how much. I'd rather know that and be more cautious than not know.

PS. I never claimed that we are back at the start.

growstuff

EllanVannin

We need to know why so many young fit people have died.

Sadly, we hear of people losing their lives to this pandemic but the exact cause of death has never been mentioned.

Yes, it has.

What I mean by the exact cause of death are pathologist reports not just a death certificate with Covid written on it.

I never suggested that you claimed we were back at the start growstuff. I said that we weren't back at the start specifically because people reading things like its not true that vaccines are effective against Omicron will think that vaccines are not effective against Omicron. (yes, I paraphrase).

So yes, of course we need to be realistic. But we don't need to always think we are going to have the worst case scenario and catastrophise everything. And right now, all the reports are that the vaccine is useful against Omicron. Even the WHO say so, and the advice is to get your booster when you can. Anything that even unintentionally implies that getting a booster is a waste of time is irresponsible.

When a person who had cancer ,dies, it's not necessarily the primary cause of death but something else secondary to it which was the main cause.

Alegrias1

I never suggested that you claimed we were back at the start growstuff. I said that we weren't back at the start specifically because people reading things like its not true that vaccines are effective against Omicron will think that vaccines are not effective against Omicron. (yes, I paraphrase).

So yes, of course we need to be realistic. But we don't need to always think we are going to have the worst case scenario and catastrophise everything. And right now, all the reports are that the vaccine is useful against Omicron. Even the WHO say so, and the advice is to get your booster when you can. Anything that even unintentionally implies that getting a booster is a waste of time is irresponsible.

I'm not catastrophising anything, but the facts are what they are and, at the moment, there aren't that many. In my post, I said that "evidence is growing that current vaccinations don't offer good protection against Omicron". It is growing. The majority of studies show that current vaccines don't offer a good level of protection against Omicron, although I suppose it depends what you mean by "good". The current advice is to have three doses and that's what people should try to do. They'll have good protection against the original variants and "maybe" good protection against Omicron. Meanwhile, they'd be wise not to be complacent about mitigations. I think most people are adult enough to understand that.

EllanVannin

growstuff

EllanVannin

We need to know why so many young fit people have died.

Sadly, we hear of people losing their lives to this pandemic but the exact cause of death has never been mentioned.

Yes, it has.

What I mean by the exact cause of death are pathologist reports not just a death certificate with Covid written on it.

This has been discussed umpteen times, not just on GN. Covid causes multi-organ failure by clots blocking oxygen, especially the lungs, and that's what kills people.