Gransnet forums


Gove again!

(116 Posts)
Mishap Sun 02-Feb-14 18:51:01

Dear me - that man is such a pain in the proverbial. Does anyone actually rate him?

It so annoys me when he provides new "guidelines" about such things as discipline in the classroom - what does he know about it? How does he know that teachers are not already doing these things in situations where it is appropriate? - and using other methods where these are the right thing to do.

His falling out with OfSted is very worrying - he is trying to control what should be an independent body. I am no great fan of OfSted, as I think some of their judgements can be very subjective, and their negative assessments do not translate into help and support for struggling schools, as used to happen with the former LA inspectors.

I wonder if he will have the nerve to put in his crony now that the s**t has hit the fan?

What a singularly tiresome man. It would not matter if he were in a position where we could all just ignore him, but he has such power.

Atqui Sun 02-Feb-14 19:03:20

Couldn't agree if teachers don't already try everything under the sun to improve behaviour.!!!

Ariadne Sun 02-Feb-14 20:02:51

Of course they do! Schools have sanctions, which are applied, but I do remember the hassle of:

Giving a child detentions- written in contact book
Child not turning up
Contacting Form tutor to rearrange
Child not turning up
Phoning home and, best possible outcome - parents agreeing to enforce
Child not turning up.....and so on.

And that would be one child out of a possible 300 on one's timetable.

We had Saturday morning detentions, run by those of us on SLT. Repeat above scenario.

But we kept at it.

"Litter duty" was abandoned after H&S concerns were raised by parents demanding litter pickets and vinyl gloves at the very least.

Sorry, a bit of a whine. Loved my job, would like to strangle Gove. Who is, BTW, a pillock, as I may have mentioned before.

MiceElf Sun 02-Feb-14 20:41:48

In my opinion Gove should be made to read, note and inwardly digest the complete works of Kark Marx, Leon Trotsky and Lenin, write an abstract for his civil servants, and if it didn't meet with my approval I would apply the cane, the tawse and a further punishment to write out in perfect longhand the complete works of Richard Hoggart. That'd learn him.

granjura Sun 02-Feb-14 21:05:42

Ariadne I remember your scenario so well- but I really had to laugh at the 'parents agreeing to enforce' -oh the joy when that happened (once in a blue moon). More like dad or mum barging into the school, all guns blazing- about picking on their little angel and of course could do NO WRONG EVER ...

Ariadne Sun 02-Feb-14 21:41:34

Oh yes,*granjura*!

Iam64 Mon 03-Feb-14 08:14:26

MiceElf - you are usually such a kindly soul. Your suggestions for the education and disciplining of Mr Gove made me smile.
He is indeed a loathsome individual isn't it. Can anyone imagine this individual being appointed to the post of Minister for Education, if the post had been advertised. He has no qualifications, no sense of his own ridiculousness and the power he has seems to be convincing him he is right about, well pretty much everything.
How about sending him to teach History in a high school in a deprived inner city area. Or, he could teach 30 low ability 6 year olds, 10 of them with special educational needs, and 10 for whom English isn't their first language and ensure they all achieved the right levels in Sats. No, we couldn't do this to the children

Riverwalk Mon 03-Feb-14 08:25:56

...30 low ability 6 year olds.

Are children labelled low-ability at such a young age Iam64 ?

JessM Mon 03-Feb-14 08:34:04

They will be if Gove has his way riverwalk doesn't he want to introduce testing for 4 yr olds?
All very well saying "childen should be punished by picking up litter" - so these days you have to do a risk assessment for this activity and possible equipment. And then who is going to supervise - if a kid is really rebellious mode they are not going to meekly pick up litter unsupervised - they will fill their litter bag from the nearest bin and return in record smile, smirking.

Aka Mon 03-Feb-14 08:43:58

What qualifucations and/or experience has this man that qualifies him in this job?

Iam64 Mon 03-Feb-14 09:06:27

Riverwalk - someone close to me taught this group of children. The school is in an Edwardian building, sited in an inner city area which has a 200 year history of high deprivation. There are two classes for each year, as it's a large establishment. It's a very positive school environment, with an inspirational head teacher and some very good staff. Levels of drug/alcohol abuse amongst parents are high. I honestly do not believe that Mr Gove has any understanding, or indeed concern, for the children or the teachers who have to combine so many other skills with teaching groups of children like this.

FlicketyB Mon 03-Feb-14 16:19:35

He is a real Gradgrind. Convinced that children are only learning if in a school building supervised by a teacher. At least half my learning was done out of school hours and in holidays, exploring where I lived, reading about topics that interested me and just generally mosying around. Every child has a right, if not an obligation to be bored and do something to get rid of it.

Mishap Mon 03-Feb-14 17:47:38

What worries me is that his "policies" appear to be ideas that have been written on the back of an envelope in a pub - they are not serious well-researched policies. These are the sort of things that get chatted about at the golf club and have no proper validity.

We all want state schools to perform at the level of the best private schools - but it is a matter of funding. You cannot just produce that result by setting a test at 13 to demonstrate that state schools are behind - how unhelpful can you be!? ou have put the resources in.

Iam64 Mon 03-Feb-14 18:02:58

Absolutely Mishap - I just heard him interviewed. He insisted that the public are fully supportive of his plans.
What public? Not anyone i know. Not many people on this forum. In addition to the extra funding that would be needed to give children in state schools the same advantages as those in the private sector, it'd be necessary to convert all those parents who aren't that interested in their child's education. What does he suggest we do about the large number of children who don't have the advantages that children in private schools are born with, and continue to benefit from.
Why can't we have an education secretary whose polices are led by research based evidence, rather than ideology.

JessM Mon 03-Feb-14 18:07:30

Who actually knows whether or not fee paying schools are "better"? They get better exam results with more money, a highly selected group of children, with smaller classes and much less "mobility" too probably (kids leaving and arriving at random times) Oh and often better facilities.
And they do not get judged on their teaching by OFSTED.

Iam64 Mon 03-Feb-14 18:20:30

Yes indeed JessM. A young friend has just moved from teaching in a failing high school, to a private school. She has classes of 15, and is paid twice as much as she was in the public sector. So far, the main difference has been the level of parental involvement, which is, of course, intense.

Riverwalk Mon 03-Feb-14 18:42:48

How will State School children be able to sit Common Entrance - they won't have studied the curriculum? confused

FlicketyB Mon 03-Feb-14 19:20:00

All main stream private school are selective. Children who struggle usually move to schools more appropriate to their ability. It happened in DS's school. One boy who like DS started at 11 was clearly struggling. It was decided that it would do him no good to sit Common Entrance and get really poor marks and the school worked with his parents to find another school more suitable for him.

Gove is talking of all children taking Common Entrance, even with the best schooling it will be beyond a significant minorities ability. It is an academic exam aimed at challenging and identifying the academically gifted.

JessM Mon 03-Feb-14 21:39:59

No point unless you are trying to get into a selective school.
He has been saying something controversial nearly every day for the last week.
What will he say tomorrow we wonder. All his little spin doctors are going to have a long night.

Aka Mon 03-Feb-14 23:03:35

Just heard him say on the late news he wants to be able to walk into any class in any school and not know if it's a state school or a private one.

Emmm.....just count the number of pupils in the class you idiot man hmm

Mamie Tue 04-Feb-14 04:57:49

I think it a shame (though not surprising) that this bit of the Pisa report did not get as much coverage in the papers as the very negative interpretation of the UK performance data.

"Schleicher said there was little difference between the UK's state and independent schools in terms of their quality of education, according to Pisa's findings.
"Our data doesn't show much of a performance difference between public and private schools, once you account for socio-economic background," he said.
"Much of the advantage that comes from private schooling is confirmed by the social-economic context, not necessarily in value added."

Of course one of the major problems in the portrayal of state schools in the Uk is that many newspaper editors use the private system. I am sure they would hate to think that they were wasting their money. hmm

JessM Tue 04-Feb-14 07:57:50

Thank you mamie apparently some of the press e.g. the FT think he is the great hope for the future of standards in education, after his speech yesterday. hmm
Is there any coherent thought behind all this or is he just trying to get positive media out of the OFSTED hoo-ha?

Mamie Tue 04-Feb-14 08:11:33

I have no idea what goes on in his head, Jess grin
The wonderful Janet Downs is on the case though:

Iam64 Tue 04-Feb-14 08:48:41

Thank Mamie, just shared your link on Facebook. Incidentally, have others seen the 38 degree petition to remove Gove from his job. I know, I know, it won't happen, but I've signed it anyway.

whitewave Tue 04-Feb-14 09:39:37

I am waiting to hear how the extra teachers needed to fulfill the teacher pupil ration, the super- duper facilities, like a rowing lake, swimming pool, delightful playing fields etc etc will be paid for? Presumably not from the flood defense budget - Oh! I quite forgot that has been cut by 30% already - no wonder the Environment Agency is having such a hard time - one must never take the blame if one can shift it onto the Teachers, Agency etc who are trying to carry on regardless of daft government decisions.