Foreign languages in UK schools - really poor offer and take up - WHY?

growstuff I thought 'the basics' were the five core subjects which always included a language.
A misunderstanding.

I think Latin is quite useful to know when learning modern Latin-based languages.
Perhaps all primary school should learn Latin as a basis for forging ahead with French, Spanish, Italian etc at secondary school?

Might it be more beneficial for english/ scottish/ irish children to learn welsh,(and possibly irish gaelic) so all Uk kids can speak each others languages?

A GCSE in any language (even a good grade) does not mean that the learner is fluent. What it does mean is that the learner has had a door opened for future language learning, as the need arises. The learner should be able to see patterns, which can be developed and adapted for learning other languages. Hopefully, some kind of cultural awareness is built into the course, so that learners don't see foreigners as aliens. They will hopefully begin to be less parochial and understand that there are different ways of doing things which have been taken for granted, which should lead to more open-mindedness about life in general.

I remember my late mum telling me they were all taught latin in her catholic school(they attended one school all the yrs from 5- 14 then) and of course the ones who were 'clever enough'- as she put it- could win a scholarship at 11 plus exam,to go to grammar school,where there were a few languages to be learned.(mum was,but could not attend as they couldn't afford the uniform/equipment neccessary, it was wartime)my own kids have had times where french or spanish was taught,at first but this disappeared with the 'new curriculum',then it was choice only for a language,if you could fit it in somewhere with other options.my middle daughter was lucky enough to go to grammar school,and i believe french german and spanish was taught as part of daily timetable.Latin is no longer a 'requirement' of catholic schooling anymore..

To be absolutely honest, I don't see the point in the Welsh insisting children learn Welsh. Waste of their time.

PS. Welch in a previous post was a typo.

One of my grandsons put no effort at all into his french lessons. The other one has chosen to take Spanish, which I don't think will be as useful as French would have been. Don't know how we'd manage on holiday without my fluently French speaking daughter. I am quite cross with GSs for not taking the opportunity to learn. Maybe it's a boy thing.

Callistemon Because you suggested that we should concentrate on the "basics" until Year 11. That's what elementary and secondary modern schools did (except is was only up to Year 10).

When my kids were in Primary school, French teachers were lovely and kind, but teaching was mainly list of strange vocab, etc, and not very communicative. And it is the same currently here in Switzerland and France - because there are so few teachers with communicative fluency and training around. Such a shame. The assumption being made that you don't have to be very good to teach at primary level. Which is utter nonsense - you have to be a much much better teacher to teach early years and get kids onto a good start which makes them want to learn, and feel confident.

growstuff there have been problems already because some Welsh schools received ratings lower than they should have done merely because their teaching of Welsh was very poor or practically non-existent. Why? Because there were so few teachers. Catch 22.
The standard to achieve a good grade in the Welsh Baccalaureate is apparently very low however.

Lovely video Marydoll- not sure it would have gone down tooooo well with my 6th Formers though x bise

growstuff I'm not sure how you managed to extrapolate from my post the idea that I thought we should go back to grammar and secondary modern schools!

In fact I believe that everyone in secondary school should learn the core subjects which even my DC did but years ago now which were English (language and literature), maths, science, a modern language and a humanity, other subjects to be optional which could mean taking two languages (only two were on offer then and neither was Welsh!).

If language teaching has been poor in the last few years it will follow that there is now a lack of language teachers. If those in my family are anything to go by, they have no problem with job opportunities which is excellent for them and their pupils but worrying for language teaching in general.

None of the curriculum time tables are fitted around 'allowing' a child to 'fit in' a language with their other choices,even if they want to,my son told me( hes just done GCSE's) that very few chose a language,as it wouldn't fit on the timetable for their other options and core groups- his friend chose german but failed it.

gillybob It's not only in the North East. I've known primary schools change languages half way through the year because a teacher left, but a teaching assistant or dinner lady (or whoever) happened to speak another language, so they changed to a new language. Languages in primary schools, as it currently operates, is a waste of time. There is a handful of excellent teachers and efforts have been made to produce inspiring teaching resources beyond colouring in, but it's not consistent and primary schools don't see languages as a priority when their budgets are cut (can't say I blame them).

The government comes up with vanity projects, such as the current one based at the University of York, which has been given £300,000. There have been projects like this before, but they're underfunded and are often cut when the next Education Minister comes along. They tick a box so the government can say it's doing something, but in reality have little or no effect. The projects need to be sustained for at least a generation (20/30 years?) to have any effect.

Pantglas, Linguists don't all agree that starting language learning young in schools is the best way. For a start, bilingual children often have quite a significant delay in literacy in both languages, although that usually corrects itself. There is also a knock on effect on other subjects in the curriculum. Learning a foreign language for an hour every week in school is totally different from living in a household where the main language is different from that of most in the community.

From a practical point of view, it's a non-starter, because there just aren't enough primary trained teachers to teach languages at primary level. The Welch government is, apparently, having serious concerns about how it's going to staff its schools when Welch as a first language becomes compulsory, even in English first language schools.

How lovely Marydoll- good teachers make learning effortless and that’s how I learned English in infants class!

Jura, I loved this as much as my pupils. Perfect for teaching parts of the body!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-oG_yYe64I

My head teacher couldn't stop laughing when he saw me dancing around the class with my pupils.
(I was fit in those days).

Hope you can arrange to get together for a good natter.

Marydoll- for real? How wonderful

For me it is a great joy to still be in close touch with many of my ex students- some all over the world now, but many still in Leics and other parts of the UK- and to support a few of them through hard times, one way or another. Many from old Tutor groups as that would span a number of years.

Paddyann, I am, your Mrs McGinley and still going strong!

The problem here in the NE is trying to find teachers to actually teach the foreign language in primary , which is where it has to start. I can’t remember how many times they have started French lessons in my DGS’s primary only for the teacher to leave and the classes ending. Having said that my grandson didn’t even have a proper class teacher at all last year so having someone who can teach a foreign language is the least of our worries.

I speak three languages fluently – or at least I used to but I haven't used them for a while – two more to "get by with ease", and one where I am just a beginner. Oh, I forgot Latin, which few people, except Boris Johnson actually speak, and a wee bit of Ancient Greek, ditto.

It is almost automatic to get a picture of the culture and society of another country if you are familiar with the language – and that is true to a certain extent even if you have never been to that country. The more we understand about "others", the more we can find the things we have in common.

I should have liked to have learned at least one African language – I have one, fairly unsuitable sentence of Swahili – and continued my study of Maori. Maybe I can join a class next term.

I think most linguists agree that the earlier a language (any language not merely ‘useful’ ones) is introduced the easier the concept of learning a language is absorbed.

No one knows better than me that learning Spanish for example at the age of five would have been a boon given that I spend so much time now in Spain! However, I’m further along the road to learning that language than so many monoglot Brits purely because I’m fluent in Welsh and English and have an understanding of French and Greek.

Marydoll the only French teacher I remember with any affection was a Mrs McGinley who taught us current songs in french,things like La Vie en Rose and songs from Mary Poppins .Lovely woman with red hair and a great sense of humour