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Reassuring news: Schools opened again in Denmark with success.

(59 Posts)
WOODMOUSE49 Wed 13-May-20 20:17:35

I've just watched the BBC news special programme from this afternoon. iplayer

Following the Education Minister being questioning in parliament today a report from Denmark was shown,

To all teachers: this is really worth watching to see what schools have done and the impact or rather lack of impact schools opening has had on the spread of Covit19.

Watch from 22.45

WOODMOUSE49 Wed 13-May-20 20:40:14

I would hope that UK schools are given enough support by UK Gov to make it as safe for children and staff to return to schools.

Furret Wed 13-May-20 20:41:50

Do you know how few deaths Denmark has had from Covid19 and how well it has been contained? The situation is way different from here in the UK.

trisher Wed 13-May-20 20:45:09

WOODMOUSE49 I looked up Denmark. Children don't start school until the year of their 7th birthday so the youngest are 6+ Class sizes average 19 and staff-pupil ration is 10.4. There is no way Engish schools could reach this level of supervision. I also worry about the children sitting alone who look so unhappy.

SueDonim Wed 13-May-20 20:50:48

My dd works for an LA and they are looking to the Danish system to get children back to school. Her council has a lot of vulnerable and disadvantaged children and the longer they are out of school, the worse is it for them. The staff seem happy with arrangements, partly because the key-worker system has been successful with no upsurge of infection.

WOODMOUSE49 Wed 13-May-20 20:59:25

Furret. Yes I am aware and have followed what Denmark has done and when.

I had hoped the clip from the Denmark school showed how children responded to the changes in their schools and also what the teachers thought to it.

trisher. Schools here could have this ratio on re-opening, I wasn't inferring that schools would look permanently like this, as you are.

I speak with the knowledge of being a deputy of a 400+ primary school. I would hope, and I am sure the unions will fight for this, is sufficient time for schools to re-organise/re-structure the layout and movement around schools+outside.

trisher Wed 13-May-20 22:04:42

WOODMOUSE49 with classes of 30, support staff cut to the minimum, some staff still trying to provide on-line education for the children still at home could you explain to me exactly how the same staff-pupil ratio could be achieved please. It would take 3 members of staff for just the reception class in a one class entry school and 6 for reception and year 1. There are sually 6 teaching staff and perhaps 3 support staff in a small primary school. So either the rest take the year 6 children and ignore the children at home or it can't be done.
There is also the question of space most small primaries are already using every room, where are the small groups supposed to go?

suziewoozie Wed 13-May-20 22:14:34

The UK is not Denmark. The UK is having 1000s of new cases a day, it’s rate of deaths per 1m is 5x that of Denmark ,its its school system is vastly differently funded and organised, it does not have the huge inequalities we do - apart from that, sure we can learn from Denmark

growstuff Wed 13-May-20 22:15:40

The key issue for me is the age of the pupils. The youngest pupils in Danish schools are almost two years older than the pupils in UK schools. Danish pupils have been banned form sharing anything with other pupils, which means they can't play with anything provided by the school. They have been told to bring all the equipment they need. If Danish primary schools are anything like schools in other European countries, they don't have the same system as the UK does with reception and Y1. They are older and are used to sitting at desks from the start.

I read a blog by a Danish teacher, who pointed out that most Danish schools are all through 6-16 schools. That means that they have more space for the children to be in separate classrooms and stay in "bubbles". They are also being provided with hand sanitiser throughout the school and the schools themselves are being cleaned twice a day.

Are you really willing to put your staff at risk WOODMOUSE? What safety measures are you planning?

lemongrove Wed 13-May-20 22:16:22

If Denmark can do it, we can do it.It’s time the schools went back in phased numbers.

lemongrove Wed 13-May-20 22:17:29

Do posters think that schools should stay closed until next year, when there is a possible vaccine?!
They have to get back to normal at some time.

suziewoozie Wed 13-May-20 22:17:39

The key issue for me is our high rate of new infections

suziewoozie Wed 13-May-20 22:18:58

No lemon but at least until our rate of infections has reduced sufficiently. And how are we like DK?

growstuff Wed 13-May-20 22:22:19

SueDomin I accept that this has been particularly bad for disadvantaged children, but I wonder which parents will actually send their children back to school. I also wonder whether the quality of the provision in some homes is really that much worse than what children would have received in school.

I don't know how typical my area is (probably not very), but there is a thriving home-schooling community, particularly at primary level. There are all sorts of reasons for that. I know that a number of parents have become more attracted to the idea.

Luckylegs Wed 13-May-20 22:24:38

There was a knowledgeable lady on tv yesterday explaining the difference. Denmark only has something like 6 million population, we have 66 million. They have been given money to pay for sinks outside, many more staff, much larger classrooms than us etc etc. There is no comparison, it’s not a fair comparison.

growstuff Wed 13-May-20 22:25:10

If Denmark can do it, maybe our schools could be provided with resources such as hand sanitiser, the space for social distancing - and not starting until children are 6 or 7 and hopefully more able to understand the need to keep away from others.

growstuff Wed 13-May-20 22:26:28

Exactly Luckylegs. It's feasible, but only if the resources (finances) are provided for a safe working environment.

growstuff Wed 13-May-20 22:27:48

What would be an acceptable number of school staff and pupil deaths? 50? 100? 500?

Furret Wed 13-May-20 22:44:04

WOODMOUSE I’m very surprised that you, with your experience in primary schools, are suggesting that this is feasible. From a management perspective alone - the cleaning, corridor space, cloakrooms, the school gate, toileting, playtimes & school dinners it present so many H&S issues that I would hesitate to even attempt a risk assessment.

Then add in basic equipment, books, computers, PE and so on before we even consider what PPE staff need (pupils?) and the impossibility of social distancing.

Furret Wed 13-May-20 22:47:03

Also you have dismissed the huge difference between infection rates in Denmark and here. So you are ‘aware’? And still don’t get the point.

lemongrove Wed 13-May-20 22:48:35

The danger to children from the virus is very very low.Any old/old-ish teaching staff that think they are at risk shouldn’t be the ones returning, but no reason for others not to turn up to work.
Schools in all countries will get back to normality sometime soon, it’s not just here, France are getting younger children back to school just as we are.

Furret Wed 13-May-20 22:57:27

Let’s face it - the only reason this is being pushed is a child minding one. Get the people back to work. Funny that secondary schools are unlikely to open on June 1st....oh wait a minute! They are old enough to look after themselves.

All this guff in the Times about ‘it being essential to provide children with education’ (but only if primary age) and slagging off Teaching Unions (which I’ve even seen on here) is simply to get the workers back and protect the ‘economy’ (aka their profits).

England stands alone in this. Well done other UK countries who put health before wealth.

Furret Wed 13-May-20 23:02:42

With respect lemon there is so much wrong in your post I am left wondering if we live on the same planet.

lemongrove Wed 13-May-20 23:05:12

I have been wandering that myself about you furret ( for some time actually.)
So, has France got it wrong too, in your expert view, or any other country that is going for a phased back to school policy?

lemongrove Wed 13-May-20 23:06:49

All countries have to get children back to school and workers back to work at some point soon....we can’t all stay at home until a vaccine is found.