Professions

My Dad always told me to get a job which was secure and could provide a good pension. My first job was in banking and he approved of that although I don’t think women were even allowed to join the pension scheme at that time, I started it in 1960. He didn’t live to see my later jobs which were civil service and then teaching but I suspect he would have approved. The biggest irony is that he was a police officer for 30 years which allowed him to retire with a pension of two thirds of his salary which was high because he achieved very high rank but since he retired on the grounds of ill health he only drew his pension for 12 months.

BigBertha1 There were only nine major professions - doctor, dentist, vet, architect, chartered engineer, chartered surveyor, chartered accountant, actuary or lawyer. (the legal profession could be divide into solicitors and barristers in England or solicitors and advocates in Scotland- so maybe 10 major professions). Obviously there were many other professions - like clergy, employed by churches, or professions ancillary to medicine. like nursing, physiotherapy, pharmacy, etc, occupations ancillary to architecture - like architectural technology, town planning, conservation advisors, etc, professions ancillary to law and accountancy, like stockbrokers, legal clerks, accounting technicians, financial advisors, etc.

There were other professions like teaching or university academic staff, senior civil servants and military officers, who were undoubtedly professional in the sense that they did require qualifications, but these people were not usually self employed.

Are the traditional professions of any relevance today?

I think what matters to most is what they earn, not definition of their job or where they did or didn't attend University/ have qualifications.

It's the money -- simple and straightforward.

Since when has accountancy been a newer profession?

As for online courses? 🤔
Beware, choose a properly qualified accountant if you need one.

Norah

robertlehrer75

I am currently pursuing an online ACCA course in the UK, aiming to become self-employed. While traditional professions like law, medicine, and engineering still hold relevance, newer fields such as accountancy, especially with qualifications like ACCA, provide opportunities for self-employment and flexibility. For more information visit this web page: mirchawala.com/acca-in-uk/

Of course accounting qualifications are relevant.

What has that to do with the OP?

Absolutely nothing. It’s advertising.

👍

Allira

Cumbrianmale56

Becoming a teacher has changed a lot over the last 60 years. If you wanted to teach at a grammar school, a degree was needed and teachers preferred to be called masters and mistresses to show they were better qualified. Secondary modern and most primary school teachers could enter the profession with 5 O levels and study for 1-2 years at a training college. I did know of one who became a games teacher purely because he was a very successful rugby league player for 16 years.
Nowadays for all teaching posts, you need a degree and a PGCE .

Or a B.Ed which is a four year course.

Some of the best primary teachers I knew did a two year course at teacher training college.

I had a teacher in the 4th year of junior school who did a two year course in the sixties and was one of the best teachers I ever had. He was really patient at teaching maths, really helping me along, had a passion for music and history, and used to recount stories of his days at a public school. He's retired now and was pushed out in his fifties as a new head decided only graduates should be allowed to teach, which is rubbish.

Allira

Cumbrianmale56

Becoming a teacher has changed a lot over the last 60 years. If you wanted to teach at a grammar school, a degree was needed and teachers preferred to be called masters and mistresses to show they were better qualified. Secondary modern and most primary school teachers could enter the profession with 5 O levels and study for 1-2 years at a training college. I did know of one who became a games teacher purely because he was a very successful rugby league player for 16 years.
Nowadays for all teaching posts, you need a degree and a PGCE .

Or a B.Ed which is a four year course.

Some of the best primary teachers I knew did a two year course at teacher training college.

Not exactly how it is now. Fee-paying schools have always been able to have teachers with no teaching qualification, and academies are allowed that now too.

As for the 2 year teacher training college people, I believe that was a post-WW2 thing because of the war and the shortage of teachers coming into the profession. I know someone who did it in the late 50s.

I was taught (sociology A level) that a profession has a professional body that restricted entry to those with postgraduate level qualifications and ongoing professional development, had a register of members and the ability to 'strike off' members who did not behave according to the professional code of conduct or charter. I remember writing an essay about it in the exam. It asked whether people who could fulfil all of those criteria but worked for an employer were 'true professionals' (eg hospital doctors, lawyers employed by organisations and so on). The reason they might not be deemed as such was that there could be a conflict of interest between their professional standards and the needs of the employer, so a doctor might want to prescribe a drug that NICE would not sanction for a particular patient, or a clergyman (or woman these days) might have to break the laws of the confessional in a court of law. Teachers constrained by the National Curriculum are deemed to have been deprofessionalised - that sort of thing.

I don't know if any of that still applies when deciding who is a professional (or why it matters, really). I expect it depends who is using the term, and why. Flat shares ask for 'young professionals' and are just looking for people who work in an office, or sometimes just people who work, and people describe themselves as 'professional dancers', or whatever, which requires none of the code of conduct rules or list of chartered members.

When my dd first went to live in Germany I suggested she might pop into the local bakery shop for a job as a sort of stop gap and to help her language skills. She told me that despite her degree and other qualifications she would not get a job there without first completing the courses required for all staff who work in bakeries.
Total surprise , in a good way. If only our carers and others who provide useful and valuable services to society got the same respect. Many certainly deserve it.

Judy54

Being a Waiter/Waitress in France is classed as a Profession which is taken very seriously by the people who are trained to wait at table. In the UK this type of work is often looked down on by those who should know better. I don't think the same training and importance is applied as it is in France.

My mother couldn't continue in the type of work she'd been doing after she married and then had a family.
So she retrained as a silver service waitress.

Being a Waiter/Waitress in France is classed as a Profession which is taken very seriously by the people who are trained to wait at table. In the UK this type of work is often looked down on by those who should know better. I don't think the same training and importance is applied as it is in France.

Cumbrianmale56

Becoming a teacher has changed a lot over the last 60 years. If you wanted to teach at a grammar school, a degree was needed and teachers preferred to be called masters and mistresses to show they were better qualified. Secondary modern and most primary school teachers could enter the profession with 5 O levels and study for 1-2 years at a training college. I did know of one who became a games teacher purely because he was a very successful rugby league player for 16 years.
Nowadays for all teaching posts, you need a degree and a PGCE .

Or a B.Ed which is a four year course.

Some of the best primary teachers I knew did a two year course at teacher training college.

I didn't mean they didn't respect apprenticeships - maybe worded it wrong silverlining48.

I think they certainly did/do so more then the UK.

silverlining48

I was only talking about this to a retired headmistress friend yesterday and teachers at private ( fee paying) schools do not have to be qualified. I know that happened some years ago but was surprised that it is still the case.

Interesting as I'd have thought independent schools would want the most qualified teachers, although most will probably have degrees and some will have transferred from the state sector.
I do recall locally 40 years ago when the area went fully comprehensive, there was a group of older secondary modern teachers who could only teach to CSE level and didn't have degrees. They had the alternative of taking early retirement with a pension or retrain for 2 years to teach to at least GCE standard( GSCEs were due to come in as well). Most decided it was too much effort to retrain and retired. One ended up investing in a frozen food business and retired quite wealthy.

I was only talking about this to a retired headmistress friend yesterday and teachers at private ( fee paying) schools do not have to be qualified. I know that happened some years ago but was surprised that it is still the case.

Becoming a teacher has changed a lot over the last 60 years. If you wanted to teach at a grammar school, a degree was needed and teachers preferred to be called masters and mistresses to show they were better qualified. Secondary modern and most primary school teachers could enter the profession with 5 O levels and study for 1-2 years at a training college. I did know of one who became a games teacher purely because he was a very successful rugby league player for 16 years.
Nowadays for all teaching posts, you need a degree and a PGCE .

The important thing is take a realistic view of your ability and the employment prospects in the field you want.
University is not an automatic key to employment, a skilled technician who did an apprenticeship will earn the same, without a £60k student grant to repay.

According to Germans I have known for many years, that has always been my understanding.

I don't think that is true about apprenticeships v degrees - according to Germans I know and have discussed this with (and Austrians who have a similar system I believe) it is still 2 tier.

silverlining48

Monica my British friend lived in Vienna in the 70/80s and was married to an engineer. She was never called Frau/Mrs Schmidt, but always called Frau/Mrs Engineer Schmidt. If her dh had been a doctor she would have been Frau/Mrs doctor Schmidt.

These days it’s as likely the woman is the engineer or doctor. It must surely have dropped out of usage now but that’s how women could gauge their pecking order through their husbands at that time.

Nowadays the woman engineer will be Frau Ingenier - because she is an engineer. But this country has always been snobbish at every level about engineers.

I can remember renewing DH's car insurance, sometime when he was travelling overseas. I was asked his occupation and I said 'Chartered Engineer', and the clerk looked at me and said 'Does that mean he works in a garage?'

As I said DH had two business cards, one for the UK and one for the rest of the world especially Europe - and had Eur Ing in front of his name.

Old thread hijacked by advert.

Agree Allira. Apprenticeships have always been highly regarded in Germany, with no distinction between them and university degrees

David49

The way to a comfortable life is to acquire a skill, it doesn’t matter what it is you can be an accountant, a plumber, a car salesman, or chef. If you have a skill that someone else needs to pay for you will prosper.
If you are a good leader you will employ others and start a company and build a business, don’t think it’s easy but it is very rewarding.

Yes. Some skills are much in demand and ambition, drive and initiative are just as important as degrees and higher degrees. Apprenticeships are undervalued in this country.

The way to a comfortable life is to acquire a skill, it doesn’t matter what it is you can be an accountant, a plumber, a car salesman, or chef. If you have a skill that someone else needs to pay for you will prosper.
If you are a good leader you will employ others and start a company and build a business, don’t think it’s easy but it is very rewarding.

Monica my British friend lived in Vienna in the 70/80s and was married to an engineer. She was never called Frau/Mrs Schmidt, but always called Frau/Mrs Engineer Schmidt. If her dh had been a doctor she would have been Frau/Mrs doctor Schmidt.

These days it’s as likely the woman is the engineer or doctor. It must surely have dropped out of usage now but that’s how women could gauge their pecking order through their husbands at that time.