Support for all who are living with estrangement

Every body that needs Support. Please check to see if your area has a Grandparent Support Group. Mine does and they are such a huge help. And do you know about the
Petitions
UK Government and Parliament
Petition
Petition for Independent Inquiry in Family Court Failings

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/262363

Court orders have placed children at risk of harm through being forced to live with or spend time with abusive parents. Parents have taken their lives as a result of poor decisions which disrupt and sever bonds between children and families. Successive reviews have failed to solve systemic problems.

More detailsSign this petition
874 signatures
Show on a map10,000
At 10,000 signatures...
At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition
At 100,000 signatures...
At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament
Share this petition

Facebook
Email
Twitter
Whatsapp

To cut a long story short. Since my Dad Mum & Grandparents died & Ibecame ill. My once nice Sil has become a control freak. I’m not perfect of course but I will do anything for my GC well my GC are being used as porns for the last 6 yrs. This time it’s been 7 mths since iv seen my GC. They blocked me from every way they could except my D email address. Since Easter Iv been emailing my D ( who I had such an awful time with during her teenage days. The worst it could possibly of got) but my D came around on & off once she was 16. I had to move home for my job to another area 200 miles away, my D was 19 & her BF now Husband was 25. They asked if they could move with me. Even though I’d only met her BF 5 times I agreed. I manage to get them both jobs after a few months so I paid for everything not just the bills etc. Their clothes haircuts food datenights & a lot of my D BF debts ( which I knew both about prior to the move. We had a couple of good years. I saw my first GC being born. They say they are always in debt they borrowed & took any money that was offered from the whole family when they were still alive

Now they allow me to send my GC presents every week, which then allows me to have a weekly thankyou phone call. I love my GC so much I will do anything I can to have contact with them no matter how little. But still not allowed to see them or take them out or have them over night.

My Daughter has suddenly became quite close in the ways she emails. She said they can’t afford to go on holiday & expensive senior school uniforms are as my eldest GC is going to Senior school. Well I offered to help my D with he cost of uniform & spending money for days out over summer holidays to the amount of £500. Even though I’m still not allowed to see my GC. I said to my D I must know your Husband is ok with this as he’s thrown it up at me before that he doesn’t want my help ( after Iv given it) & ( he’s never paid back what he’s loaned from me) & he said didn’t know I had given it. Which is a lie. My D said I don’t know if he will contact you to say it’s ok. I said if it’s his pride he can email or voicemail me he doesn’t even have to speak to me. My D said I think his worried incase it’s used against him if the Government changes its law to let Grand parents have rights as he knows you will take us to court to see the GC.
So he wants me to spoil me GC every week with a piece of clothing Trainers Football Kits MakeUp etc And big presents on Bdy & Xmas with electic scooters Hoover Boards Laptops Etc But he wants nothing to do with it.
My question is should I give my D £500 & then get in trouble with my sil who may take every contact away for ever!! He may not even know. My D as lied about many things all through her life & some people actually believe the lies she’s told that they no longer are my friends
I just don’t know what to do. I don’t want to go behind my Sil back. But I don’t want my GC to go without. Helpful advice appreciated xx

Oh dear Nannykisses that's so sad.
I'm afraid if it was me I'd be very reluctant to send money. Not only is it awful of them to ask you for money for your GC but not let you see them but if you never see them and with all the lies how will you even know if the money has been spent on them or on something else? And maybe the Sil is behind the requests for money though he won't admit it.
I think sending gifts, of a price and frequency YOU are happy with is another matter, but money I'd be wary of.

Sorry, I realise you say you offered rather than they asked, but it does sound like your DD was angling.

This is awful Nannykisses, you're being blackmailed by your D and her H to buy things for the GC you aren't allowed to see.

How do you know if you don't cough up they'll go without? For all you know there is money for what they need and if you provide it that money will simply be spent elsewhere.

IMO you shouldn't give your D the £500 or any money. Not for fear of upsetting your s.i.l. in case you can't see the GC you can't see anyway, but because it's wrong.

I'm sorry but your D is equally at fault. Your love for your D and GC is being used against you, to get you to buy expensive clothing and presents.

My advice FWIW is to stop; say no. What have you got to lose apart from a weekly brief 'thank you' 'phone call from your GC who are being used by their own parents.

Nanny kisses, I am not a good sleeper, so decided to look through various posts, then I spotted yours. My friend recently had problems and I looked at this thread.
I am so very sorry the way things are. You are being manipulated for what you provide by gifts and cash. What happens if the money ran out? Why should anyone send presents every week? For one brief phone call.. Smileless has put it very well, has said it all I think. They have effectively blocked you, e mails can be changed. Protect yourself now. You must feel bereft,mary has hard as you can, to make a life and go out as much as you can and mix with people, leave them to manage on their own, still send your emails, send no more gifts apart from birthdays and Christmas. If the contact stops all together, it would have happened eventually. Protect yourself now. You need to be wanted for you and not your money.?

Thank you Hugshelp Smileless2012 Peonyrose
For all your kind messages. I agree with you all, but I live for those phone calls, I adore my GC & miss them terribly. They are basically all I live for I have a few illnesses which stop me from going out much.
And how can I go back on something I said I would do?? Iv received an email from my Sil. But it from an email he’s never used to email me in the 14 yrs Iv known him which I think is strange. I hate to say it but my D may of made an new email & emailed me herself making out it’s from him
Email below;

“My D name”has spoken to me about you wanting to treat the kids and to help with “eldest GC name” school uniform and said that you wanted to hear from me so just thought I would send you an email

He’s not even said it’s ok. I didn’t think I’d get a thank you x

Hugshelp Smileless Peonyrose
The above message is for you to say thank you. I’m not sure why it come up highlighted x

NannyKisses it will have come up as highlighted on your screen as it's your message.

TBH I can't say I really understand how much you love and miss your GC and how much those 'phone calls mean to you because we never had the opportunity to know our GC. The oldest was 8 months old the last time we saw him and we've never seen his brother.

I'm saying this because I'm all too aware how 'easy' it is for me to advise you to stop allowing yourself to be used as a financial crutch for so little reward, but Peonyrose is right, what happens if the money does run out?

If that email is from your s.i.l. it's meaningless isn't it. I can't imagine why any GP having been asked by their AC to give £500 toward uniform costs and holiday spending money, would need permission from that AC's husband or wife. If the money wasn't wanted it would be returned.

"How can I go back on something I said I'd do?" Say you've changed your mind. I'm sure at some point in the past when the GC were little you were told you'd see them, there'd be family days out, Christmas' together and even sleepovers at your home.

You don't see them, the only contact is that one 'phone call a week provided you've bought them something; so if my assumption that the aforementioned conversations took place on some level is correct, whose gone back on something they'd say they'd do?

Been there, got the 'T' shirt and seen the film. All those things we were going to do, childcare 3 days a week being just one. We even have an email for our ES sent 5 months before the final cut out telling us they'd never stop us from seeing our GS, because they knew how much we loved him.

Perhaps you could think about reducing the number of gifts. Once a fortnight would mean that wonderful 'phone call happens every other week instead of every week.

It just might make them wonder what's going on and what they will do if you stop being the goose that lays the golden egg.

NannyKisses…...I'm so sorry you're going through this, but it sounds as if its been an ongoing difficulty for you.

Its impossible to turn ones feelings off isn't it?
It's also natural to try everything possible to avoid the painful break with GC.
So diabolical to bully you in this way. I feel so frustrated on your behalf!

Make new friends, get out and about, put a stop to giving money.
These are the wisest pieces of advice you can be given. From people who have trodden you path.
Who empathise with every nuance of emotion you have suffered, and only wish you well.

But it is hard to put into action isn't it? At the moment its words on a page. Words you probably know in your heart are true. But how to put them to good use?

What ever happens you must think of your future finances. For who will look after you when the time comes if your D and Sil have drained the well dry?

Please think hard about ring fencing your savings and how much you can give. and how long you can go on supporting them in this way.

How old are your GC?
Can you at least explain to them how much you love them, and if you cannot buy things for them in the future it isn't a sign of you not caring?

Only you will know how much of this treatment you can take.
But be very aware, they will stop contact when they choose. Its the nature of this personality type to push and push until they push you out.
It's only a matter of when.

I don't say this lightly to upset you, but to try to give you an understanding that you must make a plan, have a strategy of building a life for yourself BEFORE they drop you.
Because they will, and having done so, there is a probability you will be at your most devastated.
Left feeling bereft.

If I were you I would give the money knowing that the worst could happen and hoping for the best.

Use the time the money buys to reinforce the message to your GC that you hope they will always remember that you love them and would do anything in your power to keep on seeing them (don't actually blame the parents in anyway or name them as the instigators).

Maybe talking on here or other sites could give you some small relief. If so keep on doing it!

Have a corner in your mind where you try to build in some small way the confidence you will need to handle things in the future.

My situation is different, but like everyone here, the pain of being deliberately hurt over and over, by someone you love is a torture I understand well.

good luck

My sympathies Nanny, it's horrible to feel used in this way. That you are only useful whilst you are subsidising their lifestyle.

I am in a similar situation in that I am semi-estranged from my adult daughter. She called last week, which is rare, but not to see how we were, but to ask to borrow money towards the cost of a buy to let property. Yet she didn't send me any gift for my recent significant birthday, just a card three weeks late, as she said she knew we were away. I suppose we should be grateful that at least we receive cards, although they are always the same 'Have a relaxing day' signed love AD and SIL
- not exactly cold, but not warm either. I wasn't expecting anything much, but something would have been nice, as a gesture of affection, but I am not sure that there is any. I like to think that deep down she still has some love for her family, but maybe I prefer to live in a fools' paradise than face the truth.

Fortunately, I didn't pick up the call, so she spoke to DH. I exploded when he told me and he was sorry he had answered because it upset me. But I calmed down relatively quickly - I do calm down much more quickly these days, which is a sign of progress, I suppose. However, I am still very emotional and not entirely rational, so I have decided to let DH deal with it and be guided by what he says, as he is always calm and sensible. So we have said that yes, she can borrow the money, but it will be a loan, to be repaid when they can afford it. I don't expect to be repaid, but it is important that she realises that she can't just have the money.

I think, ultimately, you can't buy love and shouldn't try to. You need your family to want you in their lives because they want you in their lives, out of love not for personal gain. It sounds like an unhealthy dynamic which is causing you pain, although I do understand why you are prepared to pay anything and everything for the treasured contact.

Sending you hugs and

Smileless2012 Namsnanny Dolcelatte Thank you so very much for taking the time to reply to my posts, it means so very much

You all think the same way I do

I’m not going mad!!

I don’t deserve to be used

I to hope so much that my D genuinely loves me. And isn’t just being nice to me just because I give them what they ask for

There have been awful times that my D & S I L have been so cruel to me, they both have been very aggressive & said such cruel nasty horrid things to me. To the point I wanted to end my life because I was told I will never see my GC ever again & they hope I die & get out of their life’s. They even convinced their friends & even some of mine ( if anyone meet my D they would feel like butter wouldn’t melt, she can act like the nicest gentle person ever) & she can cry uncontrollably on deman. I was so bereft what was the point in being here any more. I’m in a much better place now but still allow myself to be used because I don’t want to lose the little contact I have with my GC as it is. Thank you so very very much ladies it really helps to talk to lovely caring strangers xx

It was good to see your post NannyKisses. It took me ages to type my last one as I didn't want to upset you and come across as brutal.

It's unbelievable how cruel and unfeeling your own child can be. I do understand how desperate you are not to lose what little contact you do have with your GC.

Now you have found us here, I hope you'll keep in touch with those of us who understand your pain and will do whatever we can to help and support you.

Oh, NannyKisses, my heart aches for you! How awful to feel as if you might lose contact w/ your GC if you don't send gifts, etc! I realize it may be better than if you weren't "allowed" to send gifts/have contact at all, as is the case for some GPs. But, IMO, it's sad to even have to make this comparison.

I'm not sure if/why the gifts have to be clothes. Wouldn't it be all right if you sent some toys or books sometimes? And do the gifts "have to" be expensive? Even if clothing, wouldn't it be ok for you to send some attractive, fun, but less expensive items?

As for the money for the uniform, this is a tricky one. I definitely think D was hinting when she told you about this. While I don't think you should have offered to pay, given the circumstances, I understand why you did. I probably would have done the same. And I understand your feeling that you can't back down now that you offered. Years ago, MIL reneged a couple of times on financial help she offered. Yes, she had a right to change her mind, but I hated it, as we had already made financial plans around the offers. DH and I didn't CO her b/c of it, we didn't do things that way. But IDK what your D might do, and I know how important your contact w/ your GC is to you. I would go through w/ what I said, but avoid making such offers in the future.

Oh, but then there's the problem of SIL. I think you have to assume the email is from him, it's not your fault if D made a fake account. But I would email back and ask if the offer is ok w/ him before I gave the money.

Clearly, there are some differences between D and SIL over how much help to seek/accept. Unfortunately, this has impacted your relationship w/ your GC. I'm so sorry about that.

The weekly gifts and phone calls are very likely a compromise between D and SIL. ("Ok, if your mum wants to give, then let her give to the kids, and they can ring her up to thank he, but no more than that.") I don't think I could bear to stop if I were in your shoes, but I would cut back on the expense of the gifts. I hope you continue to enjoy those conversations w/ your GC.

Meanwhile, I agree w/ others about building up your life outside of your relationship w/ D and her kids. IMO, we should all have more parts to our lives than our AC and GC. And as others have noted, you never know when D and SIL might go NC, period, over some issue, real or imagined. So please make sure you have a life beyond your relationship w/ them.

Dolececatte, I think it's nervy for AD to ask for money when she is not on good terms w/ you and DH. At the same time, I think it was a good idea to let DH handle the situation. I just hope it improves in time.

Thank you Starlady. We live in hope!

I can’t get over the kindness from all of you who have replied to my post.
It seriously warms my heart that there are people out there who care.
It is so helpful to hear from people who have been going through what I’m going through, especially as you all have your own problems going on.
But I expect that’s what we are all on here for. To be there for each other with any advice we can give
I wish us all happiness.
I have taken on board what each of you have said & I will adjust my spending. I just pray it’s not used against me, but like you say it will probably happen again anyway.
And I will try & improve my social life & have a life outside of my family.
Thank you so very much everyone. X

You're welcome, Dolcelatte!

You too, Nanny! I'm glad you feel confident enough to adjust your spending. If you get the children things that they really enjoy, hopefully, the parents will realize that the price doesn't matter.

I'm sorry you are going through this NannyKisses. I know what it's like to be desperate for any contact on any terms. Whatever you decide I hope they start treating you better and don't go NC altogether but for whatever reason our beloved children just don't seem to feel the way we do about how important it is to love one another and be a family.
Thinking of you all. x

NannykissesMaybe I see this situation differently. Maybe you have to make a deal with them about seeing the children first and then giving money. And if they want the money they have to pick it up from you. I don’t like the game playing personally but I would do whatever it takes to see my GC.

Nanny kisses, sorry for my late reply, I realy thought I had. The message from your D is disgraceful. Please, please, do not contact them or send money. Birthdays of your gc are different as is a Christmas gift, only send them, if you know your gc are receiving them, if not send a card and save the money for them later. I wouldn't send anything to parents, why reward bad behaviour from your own daughter. You have been, quite understandably going along with their demands, they hold the trump card, speaking to your darling gc. But parents could stop contact at any time, it's like walking on broken glass. Value yourself, expect nothing from now on. Fill your life, hold your head up, you are the better person, how dare they treat you like this, I wouldn't want to see them until it was to treat you properly. It seems you are far from alone with this problem, not much consolation in one way, but at least you know you can come on here and there are others to back you up. Start treating yourself if you have the funds, get out of the house every day and talk to someone, even if it's someone on the bus, in the queue.?

My husband and I have had to learn to live with the pain of our daughters seemingly lack of care or interest in either of us. When she married 13 years ago the seeds were being sown that were to develop further in the way she dealt with us. When the grandchildren were born they had the middle names from her husbands side of the family. That hurt a lot. However we carried on inviting her for meals, phoning her, asking if we could help with the children, to which the standard answer was, no your ok. Her husbands parents got to have the grandchildren regularly, holidays with them, Christmas with them (they'd pop to us for an hour to get their presents) bonfire nights, we were never included in any activities. The children are now 11 and 9 years old, in all that time we have had them for just a few hours one afternoon. Months go by withou us seeing them. My daughter never asks how we are, rarely calls either of us, never wishes us a happy holiday. We've reached the point now, where we can no longer take her massive indifference towards us, if she rings us great, if not then we will let it be. We both feel sad that we've never had the chance to develop a relationship with our grandkids. We have no idea why this has happened, as a youngster she wanted for nothing, had a stable and loving home. We are just having to move on to save ourselves all the sadness from airways wondering if she will ring. I was diagnosed with depression earlier this year not once have I ever been asked how I am. We've never been mean or selfish p, we've always been generous with presents, we've just never had the chance with the grand children.

It's beyond our comprehension isn't it Lyndylool and so hurtful when you know how much time the other GP's are spending with the GC.

As we are estranged, and have been for more than 6 years, we have no idea how much time our GC spend with their other GP's and for that I'm thankful as it's one less thing to cause us pain.

Do they still accept your invitations? If so at least you get to see something of your GC. When you say you've only ever had them for a few hours, do you mean without the parents being present? That does seem to be very common today, so unlike the way things were done when our boys were children.

They'd go for sleep overs and days out. As much as we love them, we welcomed some time to ourselves and being able to have a lie in if they were staying with GP's.

It seems today that many GP's are an untapped source of support.

Her general lack of concern is very hurtful and you're right to try and move on and not wait for the 'phone call, email, text or knock on the door that rarely comes.

"If she rings us great, if not we will let it be"; not easy to do I know but necessary to protect your sanity as well as your heart.

Smiless2012
We have just had them for a few hours one afternoon without their parents. The other GP get them for sleepovers, day stays, they e been on holiday all together several times. It's beyond painful isn't it.
This has been the trend for over a decade. I've made myself a rule that I will not contact her until my D contacts me.
It's so difficult when your friends and neighbours see such a lot of their D and GC.
I've offered so many times to help, each time it's rejected.
My husband spoke to our D years ago asking if we had done something wrong, she said no, but nothing changed.
I lost my mum in April this year, when she was alive my D hardly visited her, when she passed away she posted on FB that she missed her every day. None of them have yet visited the memorial garden we have created.
I agree with you, we have to think of ourselves now. Flowers

Crocodile tears springs to mind Lyndylool, how can you miss some one every day that you hardly bothered with when they were alive?

Thinking of ourselves is one leaf we can take out of their book isn't it; after all that's all some AC seem to do.