Child arrangement court order

Summerlove Sun 08-Sep-19 18:05:37 Why would they? What sort of people do you know? I can't understand why anyone would do the things you suggest.

MissAdventure Sun 08-Sep-19 18:11:59 Well said. It does seem as if the extremes are being suggested as the norm.

Summerlove Sun 08-Sep-19 18:14:14 Then you have had a very poor experience, most of us would be child led in such a situation. I am only talking about normal people not the exceptions.

notanan2 Sun 08-Sep-19 18:31:57 that rather depends on whether both sides are being reasonable doesn't it? A perfectly normal GP could go to court because of a parent's intransigence and also the other way round. Any adequate solicitor would stop the process before it got to court if it thought its client was unreasonable.

LostChild Sun 08-Sep-19 18:47:39 not quite sure what point you are making in your last paragraph so here's my input: we all know that abusive parents sometimes get away with it for years without being found out. Narcissists are quite capable of convincing others that whatever is going on is someone else's fault. I know of someone who used to abuse their partner and call the police to say they had been abused. It went on for some time and social services became involved but after a while the social worker saw through all the lies.

What is abuse? A young child will assume their life is normal and that being told not to tell anyone is normal too. Most children love their parents unconditionally until they find out that what has been happening at home is not normal, by then they are much older.

TwentyTwenty Sun 08-Sep-19 19:49:37 I don't think that is at all normal, that is not a memory box.

TwentyTwenty Sun 08-Sep-19 21:25:13 very true which is why it is a good idea to keep abusive emails. Ps and GPs can be guilty of this

Summerlove Sun 08-Sep-19 21:48:00 I think its best to assume P and GP are doing their best until you can prove otherwise. There are good Ps and GPs also bad both.

GG65 Sun 08-Sep-19 21:49:17 point well made

Nonnie, the people I know are lovely “normal” people who were grieving. Grief changes everyone. People can do the most insane things when grieving. That’s not the exception that is normal. It’s why someone grieving is advised not to make big decisions.

The problems becomes when they can’t or don’t see beyond themselves. People are inherently selfish. So they do what they want. They want to make sure a child learns what they want them to about their heritage so they do.

Normal people. Not extremes. If you’ve never met people who just do what they want, then you’re sheltered

Summer I simply don't recognise the people you are talking about. Everyone I know puts the GC first and simply wouldn't behave like that. If they were selfish, as you suggest, surely they would not wish to alienate the GC?

No, not at all sheltered, lived in different parts of the country, had different jobs. I will say I am probably middle class and most of my close friends are well educated so don't intimately know many people who don't think outside their own little world. Obviously I can only talk about the people I know and they all seem to go out of their way to help their families and would never get into this situation unless the AC were very unreasonable. I get on very well with my AC and their spouses so am sure they would never do this to their children.

Twentytwenty

I agree with you on lie vs truth

In estranged vs estrangers, one party says the other party lies, when for the "liars", it is their truth.

In one recent thread in gn, a grandma lost a gpr case because her son lied about her driving capabilities- her son thought she was a horrible driver.

I remember that post Hithere but if my memory is correct, the point the EGP was making was up until her son and his wife decided they no longer wanted her to see her GC, they'd been more than happy for her to drive those GC around.

When he said at a later date that she was a bad driver, I don't think the word used was horrible, it was said to support his 'case' that she was unsuitable to have contact with her GC. Therefore it was lie, if that was the truth, why had she never been stopped from driving the GC around before?

therefore it was a lie

Not necessarily.

There is a threshold whereby someone who previously allowed their kids to go with a driver may get to a point where they think that driver is no longer a safe driver. Or when they realise how bad it is having brushed it off before.

Allowing them to drive the children in the past isnt "proof" that they lied when they said they believed the children are not safe in the car.

A coincidence to say the least when it was mentioned until the GM went to court for access to her GC.

when it wasn't mentioned ...

Sounds logical to me.

Things can be "not quite right" but you tolerate them until it comes to a head. Then you may look back and think "yeah! That was a mistake" (re letting them drive)

Dont see how it proves lying at all TBH

My grandfather used to drive me places.

I told my parents how unsafe I felt driving with him. But because I was a child they thought they knew best. One day they saw how poorly he drove. After that I wasn’t allowed to drive with him anymore.

It could be a situation like that

OR they could be lying

No I can see that it doesn't prove it was a lie but then again it doesn't prove that it wasn't. The poster who relayed the incident said it was and that's the only information we have to go on.

I expect theres a lot of problems that went unsaid that have to get dragged up in a court case. There will be unpleasant stuff both sides hears for the first time in most cases I expect!

notanan I would hope not, surely it would all have been discussed in mediation? I have been told that in the family courts each party has to submit their case to the court and to the other party so surely there would not be many surprises?

Thank you, Smileless. I enjoy your posts, too.

"One of our kids GPs does this a bit to a lesser extent. We do see them but theyre full of "oh if you'ld been here last week I could have taken you to the festival in the village.."

My MIL did this, too. And yes, usually it was about something she and FIL would never have done, LOL!

So I get your point about the cards in the memory box. And I imagine some EGPs save them in that spiteful spirit, and I'm sorry about that. But I believe many EGPs just do it as a way of saying, "I never forgot you, I was thinking about you all the time."

Not speaking of anyone here, but IMO, some EAC/ECIL tend to think that, somehow, the EGPs are frozen in time, at least as far as relating to the GC is concerned. IMO, they need to realize that they aren't, that they could be keeping memory boxes, journals, etc.

And yes, I agree w/ Twenty, IF they think there may be anything emotionally harmful in those boxes or journals, etc., IMO, they need to caution their kids (at any appropriate age) about them.

Interesting posts Starlady.

When I see a baby of about 8 months of age, I'm sometimes transported back to the last time we saw our eldest GC as he was that age the last time we saw him.

Buying birthday and Christmas cards serves as a reminder that our GC are growing up. We look for cards with their age on for birthdays and Christmas cards purchased are age appropriate.

Minshy and Flying Solo.
Can relate to this unhappiness too. Although from a different perspective. I had to leave my ex husband and travel a great distance. I experienced his birth family to be abusive and controlling.

I know I made the right decision, many years later my child (young person) is doing brilliantly and we have a different kind of household and existence.

I am though, estranged from my own birth family and his. This has been difficult. They always blamed me for the situation and never saw things from a mother's point of view.

In the end parental responsibility lies with the parent. This is a very hard thing to say, but if relatives aren't prepared to see and understand how I and my daughter live...then any contact will come across and be experienced as detrimental.

Life in austerity Britain can be very hard for a single parent, or a parent in general. As a previous poster has said, I have a hard time juggling contact with her dad, all the things which a teenager needs and wants to do. School dates. GCSEs etc. Opportunities which are offered to her and she wants to take up. As well as rest and recuperation. I would say that amongst all that, daughter and I don't actually get much quality time between ourselves.

I sometimes think that if a relative were to turn up, offer to take us out to the beach and lunch it would be great. But ver little some people in extended family have done has been supportive. From my point of view. And I am at fault according to them. Yet my daughter is doing brilliantly.

You would think at this point they would be accepting that I have had some hard decisions to make, and that I've got it right. No chance.

I too feel the pain of estrangement. But I'm not going to apologise to any of them for being a great (older) mum.

I came across a website called Stand Alone. A charity offering help for people estranged from their families.

Hope in posting this I haven't offended anyone. I am sorry for your situation and do understand that family estrangment is not often spoken about and is in fact very common.

And by the way, some of the people I am talking about haven't sent presnts or cards in the last ten years. So well done for being so thoughtful and caring about that. Wish you were my daughter's grandma.

paintingthetownred. Sounds as if you've done incredibly well in very difficult circumstances. You should be proud of the life and stability you've provided for your D; I hope you are.

painting why are you estranged from both sides of the family?

smileless, thanks
Don't want this thread to turn into 'all about me' obviously...

Nonnie. Good question.
Many people don't realise or don't want to accept there is an abusive person in the family. I am not alone in my situation. It is a very hard thing to face, but if you listen to people who have been through what I have been through you will find, unfortunately , it is very common. Some people live in denial.

We started a new and better life. Most important thing.

Smileless. Thanks again. Yes, stability I have provided.
Defininitely. Working on being proud of myself.
all best
painting

And for some people the reality of abuse in the family is just too much to take. I can understand this. It almost was for me. But I came through it and

the organisation Stand Alone is brilliant. Just google it they have support groups. Family estrangement is more common than people think.
all best
painting

I wonder if, really anyone can imagine such an arrangement from the parents point of view. Parenting is a hard job, and as well as working, parents (although they often dont' get it) are entitled to rest, relaxation and being with their friends,
I can't see how such an arrangement allows for this.
It certainly wouldn't in my life.