Child arrangement court order

Macmillan nurses encourage parents who are dying to start up a memory box.

I do not think you can make a memory box on someone elses behalf though.

Why not?
My daughter died too quickly, her boys want things that remind them of her.
Why wouldn't I? (Not that I have, by the way)

I think the boys could be helped to colate their memories

But if they both made one they wouldnt be the same. E.g. one couldnt make the other's memory box

Why would I expect one to make the others memory box?

You do seem to be putting up some strange barriers.

Nonnie, I’ve said nothing at all about memory boxes.
I’m talking about extended family oversharing and overwhelming grieving children who want to move forward. Yes, I’ve had these experiences and yes I know people, aunt/uncles and grandparents on the deceased adult child’s “side”, who are so afraid of the loved one being forgotten that every visit becomes about sharing. It’s overwhelming for a child.

There all kinds of strange people who can damage children in all sorts of ways.
(Parents and grandparents included)

That doesn't mean us 'normal' people shouldn't do normal things for our normal grandchildren.

The discussion seems to be focusing on those who behave in extreme ways to inhibit anyone else from doing what comes naturally, which is to love and want the best for the children, in a reasonable, not vengeful or spiteful or obsessive way.

In my experience with grieving children, the family members thought they were normal and helping.

They just weren’t listening to what the child wanted. Their grief was all consuming, so they “knew best”. It helped them, so obviously it helped the child. Except it didn’t.

I don't really know that many people who are grieving the loss of an adult child, which is strange, considering I belong to a group for bereaved parents.

The scenario you're describing is not the case at all for us.

I never said it was universal.

But it does happen.

Relationships can be ruined by it.

It’s very very sad.

Of course.
I know of a mum who has set up almost a shrine for her daughter, and still keeps it going, almost 25 years later.

It seems quite unhealthy to me, though I suppose I can understand how it could happen.

The discussion seems to be focusing on those who behave in extreme ways to inhibit anyone else from doing what comes naturally, which is to love and want the best for the children, in a reasonable, not vengeful or spiteful or obsessive way

Well yes but those arent the scenarios that might end up with GPs Vs Ps in court so the discussion will veer somewhat towards the more unhealthy end of normal IYKWIM

By the same token, I know of a Nan cut out of her grandchildrens lives because there was drug abuse, drink, domestic violence and sexual abuse that the parents didn't want uncovered.

I realise that's certainly not the case for all parents who go no contact, hence I don't keep referring to it here.

The children are badly damaged, both in care now (many years too late) and their Nan was told by police to stay away when she was trying to alert others.

I saw an interesting comment earlier in this thread that says basically:

For every GP who goes to court who has been cut off unfairly, there is one that goes to court who has been cut off for good reason.

Make the process too easy for good grandparents and you make it easier for bad ones.

I think that is why courts are leaning more to grandparents who have been cut off by divorce and not estrangement. If it was easy to tell or prove abusive parents, they wouldn't have managed to raise kids without them being taken away. They also wouldn't have been able to convince their own children they weren't being abused for so long. Courts recognise abusive people can appear wonderful.

Those are two very sad stories MissAdventure.

I hope the mum is able one day to move forward.

Its all very complicated and sad, isn't it?
Not ideal for anyone, I suppose, but there are some very dysfunctional people around.

I wonder how on earth courts can decide what's best, and I can agree that their best way, unless there are reasons otherwise, is to assume that parents are doing their best for their children.

Nonnie said: I don't see how lies could get into a 'memory' box.

It's very simple actually... My parents have stated that they will include a letter explaining their version of the truth in the box.. I don't see whats so hard to understand. They will take a written letter full of lies, and place it in the box.. and call it the truth.

Do you understand the concept of putting a letter in a box?

Because that's all that it is, not more complex than that.

One person's lies are somebody else's truth.

Memory boxes are like baby boxes.

Parents keep the most memorable baby clothes, art work, toys, etc in a box so their adult children can have them when they are old, maybe even the grandchildren able to wear the clothes and play with the toys.

The catch is that the box usually means more to the person making the box than the one receiving it. Memories are very personal.

I agree Hithere that memories are personal and no doubt the cards we have in our EGC's memory box may mean more to us than they'll ever mean to them. But that doesn't mean they wont mean something to them, and for us that's what really matters.

HiThere said: One person's lies are somebody else's truth.

Not when you have 4 corroborating witnesses.

And actually, what you are referring to is more in line with an 'opinion'.

A 'lie' or a 'truth' can be verified by factual examination of statements, actions or events. An opinion cannot.

MissAdventure, not ideal at all I’m afraid. Some of those dysfunctional people can be the nicest in the world, but life events and poor boundaries can really screw up relationships

I agree it’s best to assume parents are doing their best.

MissAdventure, your post hit very close to home for me.

That is exactly what went on in my husband’s sister’s family - drug abuse, excessive alcohol consumption, violence and criminal activity. Only, my MIL didn’t want it uncovered either. MIL and SIL brainwashed those children into believing that things weren’t that bad and alienated them from their father - who was their way out of the dysfunction.

But she had no problem phoning the police on my husband and making false allegations against him when he confronted her on it (although, there were many other issues).

And still, to this day, she claims she has no idea why my husband has no relationship with her.

I feel so sorry for that poor woman and her grandchildren that you mentioned in your post. Any normal grandparent would have done as she did. It’s awful that the police or social services did not investigate. Those children could have been placed into her care, instead of going into the care system. Such a sad, sad story. Those children were badly let down by their parents and by the systems that are there to protect them. Awful.

There are certainly some messed up families, that's for sure.

The more I read, the more I appreciate how lucky I've been, in some ways.

My mum and my Nan didn't speak for 3 years, incidentally, but it never affected me at all.

I still skipped off to spend time with my Nan most days, and neither of them made it uncomfortable, thankfully.