*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Thank you.... its meant a lot to me to talk to you all this morning.

There is almost a shame that comes with all aspects of what has happened - I know I can become stronger but I know I've got to do that. Just feel so very hurt at present and I know this isn't a pleasant quality but I do feel why is this happening to me. Very vulnerable also. Really appreciate your replies

Dear 40somethingmum it's always a mix of emotions when we get a new poster on this thread.

I think it says a lot about many who post here that you've been able to share your pain but it's so sad to hear from yet another parent who is being treated so badly by their adult child and their partner.

It would seem that you are also suffering at the hands of some of your family, which only exacerbates the hurt you're already going through.

Why some people believe it acceptable to use their own children as weapons to inflict pain on others is beyond me. By allowing everyone but you to hold your GC when you are in the same room, I have to say is one of the nastiest things I've ever heard.

We were never subjected to anything so cruel, I can't begin to imagine what you must have felt and how you managed to stay there; I would have left.

Shame is an emotion we have all experienced. Our shame makes it almost if not completely impossible for us to share; thank goodness for sites like GN and threads like this one.

Shame brings with it feelings of guilt. So much time is wasted tearing ourselves apart, looking back in the tiniest detail at years of loving and being there for our children, trying to see where and how it could of all gone so horribly wrong.

We've all been there 40something and it takes time for the shame to dissipate and one of the things that helps is to know that you're not alone, that sadly there are 1000's of P's estranged from their AC and as a consequence, estranged from their GC.

There's nothing wrong with feeling "very hurt at present", or for how ever long that feeling continues.

It's been 7 years for us and we both still feel hurt, it's not something we are constantly aware of but it's there. We'd be less than human as you would be, if we didn't.

You feel vulnerable because you are. Your love for your son, love for your GC and your need and desire to be a part of their lives makes you so. These natural needs and desires are being exploited, not just by those who are actively involved but by those who stand by and say or do nothing.

I'm so glad you found us, have posted and have already been comforted by the replies you've had so far.

I'm so very sorry for what you're going through.

Thank you Smileless2012 its so draining and just rips your whole life apart...... yes it feels like it comes at me from all directions including family and in all honesty I feel ashamed telling anyone because I feel they may think "she/I must have done something really bad to have such negativity from so many people including family" my partner and best friends are very very supportive and I've asked them many times to be honest and tell me if this is me - but they say its not me.

Throughout my life I seem to attract nastiness from people and I've torn myself apart dissecting every part of my personality. I'm not perfect but I always feel that I'm caring and considerate.

I needed to be in a place with other people who were suffering because I don't know anyone who is going through this. And likewise if I can offer any support to the people on here I will. Think I'm feeling sorry for myself today and I'm sure tomorrow will be a little easier but I know this week will be a difficult one anyway but I think with this on top of it all just exacerbates it.

Thanks for listening to all who have supported me today

Catching up here a little. So sorry to hear all the pain, but glad to hear about the happy moments and reconciliations.

Cherries, is it possible that DIL would rather not partake in the visits w/ you and DH? Can you find a gentle way of letting DS know that it's ok if she goes off on her own, sometimes, or doesn't come? Maybe something like, "We would love to have all of you here, but we know DIL isn't comfortable w/ us, so we'll understand if she doesn't join you and the GC when you visit us..."

You're entitled to feel sorry for yourself today, and any other day come to that 40somethingmum.

You will come across people who think you must have done something for this to be happening. We've all had that unfortunate experience and as upsetting as it is, you will learn to rise above it, and realise that it comes from the ill informed, from those who are fortunate enough not to be estranged, and maybe need to blame us for our plight, because if it can happen to us when we've done nothing to deserve it, it could happen to them.

Try and take one day at a time, and on days when that feels too much, take one or two hours at a time.

Something that has helped me, and helped others I've shared this with, is to see onslaughts of pain and despair as waves. Imagine you are on the beach and a huge wave is coming, let it crash into you and then watch it as it roles back out into the ocean. You'll be soaked to the skin, but you'll be OK. Maybe a bit wobbly, but still on your feet.

You will be OK, it takes time but you'll get there; just remember you're not alone x

Great advice, Namsnanny and Nonnie!

Ready, congratulations! Sorry you won't meet this new GC any time soon, but glad the other GPs are sympathetic and sent you pix. Wise of you, IMO, not to let DS or DIL know. Sad that is has to be this way, but I agree that if DS or DIL found out, it would just cause trouble.

Dolcecatte, I'm another one who loves how you express yourself. IMO, you're very wise to stick to the original plan. Even suggesting a change may cause just the kind of tension you want to avoid. IMO, also, it might be a good idea to avoid discussing DD1 w/ your other DDs. I don't think DD3's resentment of your focus on DD1 is all that unusual. No doubt, you fully appreciate the fact that she and DD2 have been there all along, but maybe they need to be made more aware of that.

Welcome, 40something! My heart breaks for you! So many sorrows and disappointments! I'm no therapist, but it sounds as if your son has picked up attitudes from his father... sigh... and his partner is simply reflecting whatever he has said to her. I'm so sorry about all of this.

TBF (to be fair), I can't fault your parents too much in the last incident. It wasn't really their place to say anything as you are all adults. But perhaps there is something in their treatment in you in the past that has made your sister feel she can act the way she does? Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for a family to have a "scapegoat." Was that your role in your family growing up?

Regardless, I think it's great that your partner and his friends are on your side and have let you know none of this is your fault. Please believe them. I hate to say it, but, right now, it may be better for you not to see your family - including son, his partner, and child - and focus on your relationships w/ your partner and his friends. IMO, they are your true "family" now. I get that there is a sense of loss involved, but you also gained something very special way back when you met your partner, so please don't lose sight of that.

Lots of hugs!

Thanks, Starlady!

You're welcome, ReadyMeals!

Thank you all so much for all of your kind words, and its helps so much just to chat...... I'm sorry that you are all going through this also - we hurt because we care.

Just hope as time goes by some resolution will happen. I will always keep some hope x

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hello muffin and other estrangees if that’s a word - this is all very new for you but thankfully you’ve come to the best place for support from so many estranged parents and grandparents.

Some like me have had reconciliation after many years of despair and I won’t pretend that it gets easier the longer the actual estrangement goes on but you will learn different strategies for coping from reading these threads. Be aware from Dolcelatte and my posts that reconciliation has its own challenges albeit different ones.

My earlier posts from when I joined GN in May (Pantglas1 as well) are on most of the estrangement threads and I continue to read and occasionally post to give everyone hope that things can come good eventually with goodwill on both sides.

Be kind to yourself x

You’ve got a lot to deal with so hope you get some comfort on this forum. It’s been my lifeline for a while now.

You’re not alone in this situation and it’s early days for you too.You'll still be “reeling”.

I would say be good to yourself and your husband, rest, sleep, eat good nourishing food and get all the help you can for him from doc, etc.

Keep the door open for your daughter if she contacts you and don’t lose hope that one day she will.

Hi Muffin so sorry to hear you are also suffering - I posted this morning and have had a warm welcome and support. I'm sure this will become a safe haven for you too to have a chat as sometimes it can be so overwhelming. I too struggle with sleeping - I have recently brought a diffuser and I put lavender oil in it and its really helped me.

Thinking of you

One theory that might help us all a little bit is that within the Western world in the last few decades, there has been a switch from a broadly collectivist culture (emphasising such things as interdependence, our responsibilities towards each other, the wellbeing of the family or group, the notion of society, co-operation, consideration of others' views and needs as well as our own and the importance of trying to preserve interpersonal harmony where possible) to a widespread, more atomised, individualist culture which is more valuing of qualities such as self-assertion, freedom to choose, form and end relationships, independence, a focus on personal wellbeing, benefit and advancement and the promotion of self-sufficiency. It seems that there has also been a broadly cultural shift in favour of taking offence strongly and easily then feeling entitled to take drastic measures in response. I have been reading an article or two which suggest that relationships tend to be more fragile in individualist cultures.

If this theorising about cultural changes is correct even in just some respects, we might feel less prone to prolonged rumination, self-reproach, guilt and shame (why has this estrangement happened to me/us? what is it about my/our character, behaviour, parenting, functioning as a mother/father-in-law that has brought it about?) and might be likely to harbour less intensely negative thoughts and feelings towards those who are doing the estranging. That is to say, the issue of estrangement may become slightly less personal if it can be understood as a fairly common (and growing?), unfortunate aspect of cultural changes which predispose people to resort to this strategy.

Without mentioning the C word, this can be a difficult time of year for people dealing with estrangement. It makes me sad for my children that all the family cut me and therefor them off when I couldn't cope with my NM any more. It makes me sad that there are all these loving families on adverts and in films and I've never experienced that. I hope that everyone can find joy in (c word) and the run up to (c word) and remember your vitamin d because we are all getting older and the lack of natural vitamin D from sunlight can exasperate the SAD this time of year.

In the past, there was perhaps more emphasis on collective, multigenerational celebration and a sense of duty or goodwill involved in trying to preserve the traditions of gathering together and making special effort to tolerate each other's foibles for the sake of the common good or because of a sense of higher purpose. This may have been especially true at C-time and at other important family occasions. We at Gransnet can become cheerleaders on behalf of remembering what used to be - even though we may be wearing rose-tinted, nostalgic spectacles - and to champion something of that spirit being restored!

I love c word now, it's magical with my children. Growing up I hated it. NM would say something like "you have less presents than your brother because your father will get you some. Dad's side of the family weren't present orientated and I would generally get knickers from my nan and nothing from my dad. We would then take it in turns to open presents and I would run out before my brother was half way done and be sent to make everyone tea. I would never get things I asked for in my Santa letters either whereas my brother always did. So I always felt pushed out.

Ooh talking about that upset my inner child, I might need to get her a c word present this year lol I wonder if you can still buy cabbage patch kids.

Starblaze bless you. Just reading about your childhood is upsetting, so heaven knows how it actually feels. Hugs from a Mum who loves unconditionally. Fortunately my DD knows it. It's her OH who has taken a dislike to me.

Sending healing thoughts to 40somethingmum and muffin. Your emotions are very raw at the moment, but let that wave wash over you and imagine the hurt going out on the tide. C'mas time will be hard but we'll be here. If it gets really overwhelming perhaps some counselling would help. It helped me, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. Take good care of your health. It's easy to get sick when defences are low. xx

The strangert thing about my NM was that she grew up in an abusive household but wasn't able to recognise she did the same thing. Her father was an alcoholic and her mum did not protect her as she should. I actually have a letter my NM gave me from her mum, apologising for her behaviour. I think my mum was trying to show me she had a bad childhood. What is also in the letter that is interesting is her mum gently telling her that she didn't think she should be shouting at me all the time. My mum was abused, no doubt and it broke her to the point she took it out on me. Sadly my nan died when I was young and she was the only member of the family who really knew her daughter was severely broken and had a lack of empathy. All other families were told I was an awful naughty child and they just believed it. I then became an awful difficult teenager and finally an awful druggie adult. None of these were true but it meant family didn't get close to me or support me and eventually cut me off when I cut off NM.

Yet I am not abusive. I didn't repeat the pattern. I don't hurt my child and lie to myself and others to justify it. I don't demean one child to another and destroy their relationship too.

Why am I different? Why couldn't she be different?

Maybe because I had a loving father? Maybe the presents never mattered there, it was the love that matters and that was just one way NM abused me. If she had been too poor to buy me much I wouldn't have minded.

I'll never understand it but at c word I miss the connections others have and I wish it for my children even though they don't notice the lack because they ARE loved.

Goodness, this thread has moved quickly over the last couple of days.

Thank you Smile and Starlady for your kindness and encouragement, as well as your wisdom. I had another positive call from DD on Saturday and she assures me that I will be kept fully informed by her and SIL as soon as baby arrives. Her actual words were 'of course', as though I would have any reason to doubt it.....! Funnily enough, I have slept a lot better over the last two nights.

I am also trying to gain more of a sense of perspective. Today, DH and I are taking friends out for lunch who, in the last 12 months, almost lost their teenage daughter to cancer - it was touch and go for months. During the same period, the husband lost his mother, to whom he was very close, suffered a stroke and a heart attack due to the stress, and was made redundant. When I think of what they have been through, I realise that my troubles are insignificant in comparison. It doesn't make them less painful, but I do think that one of the best ways of coping with the pain is to try to look outwards not inwards, to engage with others, with Life, which will go on, whether we engage or not, and which is finite for all of us. If you scratch the surface of almost anyone, you will find problems, difficult situations and anxieties. Most of us are bleeding from some part of us, even where the wounds are unseen. This is not meant to sound depressing, but just to say that we are not alone and that, here on this forum, by sharing our own individual stories and heartbreaks, hopefully we can help each other to endure and even - if not to thrive - maybe to find peace. It has certainly helped me over these last few months, not least by acting as a sponge to soak up my worst feelings of despair and detoxifying my mind, which has helped me function better in everyday life.

A big welcome to the new posters and I hope you will find some comfort here.

@40somethingmum - what jumped out at me from your posts is how young your DS is, meeting his partner at just 19 and a baby on the way so quickly. That is a lot of change and responsibility for such a young man, who sounds very reliant on his girlfriend and her family.

It strikes me that there may be there have been some discussions going on behind the scenes, possibly some individual power games or tensions you are not aware of . Why didn't DS let you know where he was living? Did you quarrel with him when he left? How well do you know his girlfriend ? How old is she? What are your relationships like with your parents and sister? It sounds like quite a complicated family set-up and a volatile situation - could it be that your ex DH is stirring up trouble? Why wouldn't they let you pick up the baby?

I think, from the information available, I would try to be calm but loving, available but not chase unduly. Don't become involved in family politics, but seek to rise above it and show yourself to be the dignified, reliable, loving parent, who will be there to pick up the pieces when your DS needs you, which he will, probably sooner than you think. Just try to be patient, although I know it is easier said than done. Your DS is bound to mature and change considerably over the next few years and his perspective is likely to change.

Wow Muffin, she certainly chose her moment to go NC didn't she! Do you think she has some problem dealing with sick people and subconciously used a relationship problem with you as a way of avoiding having to deal with a sick father?

@Muffin - I am still reading through the latest posts and I just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you. But it is very early days, so don't despair. Would it help if your husband sent a message, assuming that he is well enough to do so, not to 'guilt trip' her, but to hopefully remind her of her loving parents. It sounds to me as though she is in denial to some extent. Thinking of you

Dolcelatte, I think you just have to let yourself feel all the feelings. Spending too long asking yourself or others if your feelings are right and justified just prevents you from dealing with them. They are your feelings and they are real. There is also always the danger of alienating others with questioning them about your own feelings. They may feel different or be hiding from their feelings too and dislike having them brought out, which isn't your problem. Your feelings are your problem, go ahead and allow yourself those feelings and express them for you. I generally go have a good cry in the shower or really throw myself into yoga which is a great way to get your mind and body in tune. I've heard screaming into a pillow helps too. No real genuine feelings are wrong, they just are.

Unless in the case of abusive people who just fake them for attention.

I'm sorry that your DH is ill muffin and that the stress of that situation is being compounded by your D's behaviour and you missing your GC.

There's no need for you "to feel alone with it all"; you can talk to us here and we will do whatever we can to try and help and support you.

There's a lot in what you have posted Cherries, so much has changed with regard to the family dynamic. What was once valued and treasured is all too often it seems discarded as irrelevant.

Christmas can be such a difficult time of the year for so many. For you Starblaze the resurfacing of painful memories as you look back and see that Christmas with your mum was never what it should have been.

For us and all EP's/GP's it brings back memories of how things were, of the good times before our families were torn apart by estrangement. Mr. S. and I are at least spared memories of seeing our GC at Christmas, because we never did.

I'm glad you've had some better night's sleep Dolcelatteand that the positive calls from your D keep coming. Keeping everything crossed that all goes well for her and the baby when the time comes.