*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Yes, at least my situation has drastically improved over time. I don't know if it is worse to have it and lose it than to not have it and wish you did. If I can move past the resurfacing memories life would be so much better.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oh muffin this is really a terrible situation.

Reading that despite finding it difficult to do so, your DH tried speaking to you D on the 'phone, only to have her put it down on him is heartbreaking.

Easier said than done I know, but please try not to feel torn. You and your DH have done nothing to deserve this. Be there for him and if you can, avoid contacting your D for a while; see if she contacts you.

Oh dear Muffin, what a horrible situation. I really feel for you. Sometimes our adult DC can be so cruel, I wonder if they actually understand the pain they cause and the damage they do. You kind of think, or you tell yourself, that if you were really in need, ill, bereaved, that they would understand, that they would rally, that they would be there for you. You try to believe that, underneath it all, they are still the child who ran to you, to whom you were their world, who loved you unconditionally, as you loved them and continue to love them.
It's hard to believe that they can be so callous towards those who have given so much. I suspect that she will grow to regret her actions in the future, but I know that's no comfort now.

If it's any consolation, after a three year period of estrangement which I found massively painful, my DD appears to have reverted to her old self and seems to want to pick up where she left off. It's quite bizarre in a way and I am still wary of being hurt again. But maybe our DC sometimes need to separate from us for a while in order to find themselves, maybe they hurt us the most because they know that we will forgive them. I don't know - I just keep trying to make sense of it all, but I am not sure I ever will really.

Anyway, you are not alone - we are all here to support you and we do understand the darkness and despair and the deep pain you are feeling, and we send as many comforting thoughts and good wishes as we can muster. Take good care of yourself amongst all of your caring responsibilities - you matter too, you matter very much.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

If you're worried that any Christmas gift you send your GS may be returned, why not send a card with a cheque. You'll know whether or not the cheque is presented for payment, and if it isn't, wouldn't that be better than having a lovingly chosen gift returned?

Sorry I'm not keeping up atm. Quick wave to 40somethingmum and muffin - glad you found us and I know the wonderful ladies here will do all they can to help.
Thinking of you all. xx

Morning ladies. It's lovely here this morning, blue sky and . Hope the sun's shining where you are.

Mr. S. has been talking all week about getting a Christmas tree to put on our roof terrace. I'm trying to put him off as it's still November but I think I'm going to lose this one.

Can you get them yet? Isn't it too early?

Hope you're OK hugshelp x

It might depend on whether he wants a real tree or a fake one. I would worry that a real tree would be a fire hazard by Christmas if you purchased it now, but I do think they have fake ones available already.

It's to go outside on our roof terrace agnurse; secretly hoping there aren't any for sale yet.

I'm like Mr S I love to get started on Xmas early. Been filling DDs advent calendar today. Wouldn't go as far as a tree yet though, but only because I know I will tire of it when it gets tatty. A roof terrace sounds marvellous!
I'm ok thank you smileless, been a combination of busy, a few household dramas and being full of cold - I've literally never had so many cold-sores - my face looks yuk!
Think I mentioned a while ago that when we had our stairlift fitted a few years back, unbeknown to us they didn't fit it and damaged the stairs. Finally got someone out to assess the damage (from adaptations not from the stairlift compnay who are taking the 'not our fault guv' line so far) and we hadn't realised but the top step is cracked all the way through, you can see it from underneath at the top of the cellar. So waiting on a structural engineer now to come and do a proper report. So frustrating as we were wanting to move house to a bungalow near our DD after Xmas and it's all on hold now.
Had a lovely evening with DHs cousin - a folk evening in a country pub. Everyone there was about our age and it was a really informal night with people taking turns singing, playing guitars and accordions and everyone joining in the choruses. It was really charming.

Sorry you've been unwell hugshelp.

Those plans to move near your DD sound great, hope you can get the stairs sorted out so you can get the ball rolling.

So many moving posts, both sad and happy.

Hope you feel better soon, hugshelp.

Glad our words have helped, Dolce, and that things are going better.

Starblaze, I hope you buy that little kid in you something special. It may not be a Cabbage Patch doll, but something you really want. Or maybe start a collection of valuable dolls. It may have monetary value, but it is also likely to soothe that inner child... Just a thought...

Muffin, my heart aches for you. To have a sick DH and an estranged daughter at the same time - ohhh... I agree with Ready that your DH's unfortunate illness may be what's driving DD away and she's embarrassed to admit it. I hope she will find it in her to come around in time. Hugs!

Morning ladies, well I know that at 58 I'm really too old to go weak at the knees when I see a celeb being interviewed on the TV, but I've just seen an interview with Chris Martin from Cold Play on BBC breakfast and did just that.

To make matters worse, with Mr. S. with me in the kitchen I said "oooh I think he's lovely".

Might have to give in now and get a Christmas tree for the roof terrace sooner than I wanted too.

Just got in from shopping and yes ......Mr. S. now has his Christmas tree.

I hope you are feeling better today, hugs, and pleased you enjoyed the folk evening. It sounds like a lot of fun! As does Smile's Christmas tree on the roof terrace - at least Santa won't miss your house when he passes by on his sleigh. Just remember to put out some carrots for the reindeer and a glass of something for Mr S(anta)

Thanks for your kind words Starlady. Yesterday was a very happy occasion as it was my graduation and I was accompanied by my DH and DD2 and DD3, who made it very special for me. They gave me such a loving card and a gift which was so carefully chosen, as it relates to the subject which I studied. I was actually quite anxious when I woke up, hoping that it would go well, worried that I might trip up or something when going up to shake hands and collect my certificate. I was probably at least as anxious as the first time, many moons ago. DD1 was not there, obviously, as she is due to give birth any day, but at least she sent a good luck message.

And that is the thing about estrangement, it can eat away at your self-confidence - or, at least, in my case it has. You feel that if the person you gave birth to, gave your heart to, loved unconditionally, would give your life for, can just discard you, then you must be of little worth. So, for me, it's essential to treasure the precious moments with other family members and friends, who make me feel worthwhile and special. I try not to let the estrangement make me doubt myself or contaminate all that is good in my life, although it is not always easy. DH has been such a support, in his quiet way, with endless reassurances that I am not a bad person or a bad mother. When I started my course, just over two weeks ago, it was at the lowest point of the estrangement and I had to make myself carry on, as sometimes I was so upset and tearful that I could not concentrate. I just felt like giving up, that it was all a bit pointless, when DD1 was the focal point of my feelings and thoughts to the extent that there was no room for anything else. Apart from being a lovely family day, yesterday felt like an achievement, as much in a realisation that I survived the last couple of years as anything academic, so it felt like a turning point in a way.

Muffin, I feel so desperately sorry for you at present. My DD is also very much under the influence of SIL which is inevitable if someone is with a person 24/7. It may not be about money or difference in lifestyles but, if it is, hopefully time and maturity will lead your DD to a different perspective.

Do any of you watch Coronation Street? The new storyline concerns a new family on the street with a very kind opinionated mother at the helm and how the whole family is estranged from the sons child.

I haven't watched Coronation Street for years Peonyrose. All the soaps try and feature current social issues and isn't it great that estrangement is being featured on such a popular one.

It would be great if it helped others see what living with estrangement is like and the pain it causes to so many in the families where it happens.

It's interesting that you describe the mother as "very kind (and) opinionated". All to often we're told that having an opinion is wrong if it isn't the same as our EAC and/or their partners, so the estrangement is our fault.

'Congratulations' Dolcelatte on your graduation. A huge achievement especially with all of the emotional turmoil you've had to deal with on top of your studies.

Your DH sounds just like Mr. S.; we are fortunate to have such lovely men in our lives.

Not long to go now for your DD1, hoping all goes well for her and the baby.

Mr. S. is thrilled with his tree and I have to say, it does look good. I'll remember to leave out something suitable for Santa and his reindeer. No point in relying on Mr. S.; he'll forget.

Ooh you have made me smile smileless with a vision of you going weak at the knees and Mr S getting his tree on the roof.

Congratulations on your graduation Dolcelatte - how marvellous. You are so right about it destroying your confidence so I think you've done amazingly well.

I haven't watched Corrie for years either. Used to love it but it all got a bit too edgy and far-fetched for me when Tracy Barlow went a bit bonkers and the tram crashed. And I think somebody was a murderer in the factory as well. Gave it up then.

I was the story line some time ago about one of the main male characters in an emotionally abusive relationship that stopped me watching hugshelp.

Made me worry about our ES because of the woman he's married too.

Glad I made you smile, told Mr. S. and he's glad too.

I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice or help, I have virtually co parented my grandchildren since the day they were born one is 2.5 and one is 1.5, my sons girlfiend recently left him and gone back to her wealthy parents who she hadnt seen for 6 years, she has now cut all contact and blocked phones and we have tried to visit the house but the private electric gates arent answered, I feel utterly distraught I cant stop crying I feel like I'm grieving and one of my own children has been snatched from me, this is effecting other relationships and I cant snap out of it I miss them so much they bought so much joy to me and I loved them with every fibre on my body, she promised as her and my sone wasnt getting on if ever ahe left him shed never stop me seeing them and now she has, I feel really over the top when I say it out loud or type it but I'm so miserable and upset i cant shake it, I cant look at pics of them as the pain and loss I feel is so immense, what's wrong with me ?

Your son needs to see if he can get access to his children. Then he can ensure that you see them.

In the meantime, you might consider counselling.

Sorry to hear about your situation Looby33. Most people on here will understand and share your pain in some way. I know it's only a little comfort but it has kept me going knowing I'm not alone. There's nothing wrong with you in feeling things so strongly. Being estranged from loved ones is immensely painful.
Is your son getting any contact with his children at all? Is he trying to?

Hello Looby. There is nothing 'over the top' about what you are feeling right now or how you've expressed your feelings.

Do you know if your son is getting access to his children? If he isn't he needs to seek legal advice and get the ball rolling asap with regard to his rights as a father to joint custody. If he is seeing the children, he will be able to provide access to you.

With him in all likelihood seeing less of the children, this will sadly result is you seeing less of them too, but at least through him, the relationship with you can be maintained.

You say your son's ex partner has "gone back to her wealthy parents who she hadn't seen for 6 years". It would appear that this is a pattern of behaviour. Cutting out her own parents and having a relationship with you, now cutting you out and having a relationship with her parents.

For the sake of the children and her parents, we can only hope that at some time in the future, she doesn't once again cut out her parents and try to take her children's GP's away from them.

It looks as if these are early days for you, when the pain and shock is so immense that we're afraid we'll never be able to cope with it.

You're not alone, there are many here who will give you as much support and help as we can.

For now, try and take each day or part of each day at a time. Don't be hard on yourself. Your feelings and the way you're trying to deal with them are perfectly normal.

Take care and if you feel you can, stay in touch so we know you're OK.

Morning ladies, another week has started and I wonder what it has in store for us. Good things I hope.

You must be on tender hooks Dolcelatte waiting to hear the news that your GD has arrived safe and well. What a wonderful early Christmas present she will be for you all.