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Estrangement

Unbearable sadness- blocked with no reason from 4 GK

(84 Posts)
Anna4 Sun 03-Nov-19 19:35:33

Hello, This is my first post in this forum. I'm an active and professional person with a career, divorced - but I am also a grandmother of 4 children from two daughters. I have not seen my grand kids for 10 months - since xmas time last year, nor have I heard from my daughters. One daughter, with 3 children, I had thought I had been close to, has cut me off with no expressed reason whatsoever. My other daughter who has one child, has had a 10 year psychiatric history of borderline personality disorder and a police record for assault on other school mates, has also blocked me from seeing my grandchild from her. I have written letters to both, apologizing for 'whatever I have done', sent flowers, cards but they don't respond in any way. I have reached out to their father to ask for his help in intervening - but he is not helpful. He almost gloats. He himself has a police record of assault, and doesn't care about the damage of estrangement I have w my daughters' blocking of seeing my grandkids. I am not an enmeshed -style mother, I respect my children, but they have sucker punched me with this unbelievable agony of not seeing them, their husbands or their kids. This is killing me. I am at a loss.

Anna4 Mon 04-Nov-19 21:12:40

Several of these postings are from non- grandmums, and are members of Mumsnet, who are presumably grappling with their own estrangement with their own mothers. It is unfortunate that they are choosing to criticize legitimate grandmothers on this forum. I think it's obvious who they are, and how they are enjoying the anonymity of online posts that are clearly insensitive, unfair and demeaning to the original poster.

Hithere Mon 04-Nov-19 21:20:37

Anna4
Do you want blind "poor you your family is so mean to you" messages with no insight on your circumstances instead?

LondonGranny Mon 04-Nov-19 21:41:01

As I've mentioned on GN before I am not allowed contact with my grandchildren either. It breaks my heart but what has helped is being a sort of surrogate gran to a child who has no living grandparents in the UK and a grandad in NZ with advanced dementia.

I'm called 'Auntie B' but it is to all intents and purposes a grandma / grandchild relationship. It started with babysitting when they were two (eight at the end of Nov and I'm making the cake). It's a joy to have that relationship. I can't pretend I don't think of my grandchildren daily but being Auntie B has really helped at least partially fill the hole in my heart. Love has to go somewhere.

Anna4 Mon 04-Nov-19 22:09:52

LondonGranny, What a smart idea you have, to fill the hole in your heart. I may explore this idea as well. I have a male colleague whose daughter has forbidden him to see his grandkids. After a year of depression, he joined a big brother group and is now a surrogate parent (not a grandparent) to a young child with whom he has a great relationship with. Similar idea, thank you for sharing.

LondonGranny Mon 04-Nov-19 22:17:05

The babysitting came before the estrangement, it wasn't that the relationship with this dear child happened because of the estrangement, it just really developed naturally as time went on. It just ended up that the time I would have spent with the grandchildren is now spent with a really delightful child who just happens not to have grandparents they can spend time with.

Anna4 Mon 04-Nov-19 22:18:59

Westerlywind,
So sorry to read you comments. Being assaulted is tremendously damaging and I was sorry to read you didn't report it. I would keep a record of it, when where and how it happened - just in case its happens again- and I sincerely hope it doesn't. No one should put up with physical violence in a family. Please take care of yourself.

Anna4 Mon 04-Nov-19 22:19:48

Good for you! Your deserve to be happy.

Anna4 Mon 04-Nov-19 22:21:29

Hithere,
I am interested in knowing why you think that my post is a "poor me your family is so mean to me"? You sound like an interesting person.

LondonGranny Mon 04-Nov-19 22:22:41

They wants a London Underground train cake! Thank God they're not into castles with turrets. I can manage an oblong cake with no crenellations. I think it's inspired by the day I took them on the tube to the London Transport Museum.

LondonGranny Mon 04-Nov-19 22:24:05

Oh sod all this 'they' to hide the fact it's a little boy, especially as I've revealed I'm Auntie B

HolyHannah Mon 04-Nov-19 23:42:20

Anna4 -- Pointing out how you or any other person is behaving may be barring them from getting their desired outcome (I assume reconciliation and renewed relationship with grandkid's) is not criticizing.

Actions and behaviors have consequences. Kaimegan is harassing her EC, has had police involvement and an assured continuation of remaining No Contact with her family because of it. To point this fact out and the 'why' this may be exacerbating the situation is not criticizing.

What is a "legitimate grandmother"? Is this another, "If you aren't an estranged grandparent you don't know what you are talking about." situation? I guess you want to hear you are doing nothing wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves for treating you so cruelly.

ClareAB Tue 05-Nov-19 00:51:48

Borderline Personality Disorders do not just happen. In the vast majority of cases there has been significant trauma whilst growing up.
It sounds like old wounds are beginning to show in your daughters. Not uncommon when they now have their own children and start seeing the world as a mother not a child.
Maybe something awful happened to them that you don't know about? Maybe they were more affected as children by your relationship with your ex than you ever knew? Maybe they feel hugely protective of their little ones, and don't feel you gave them that same protection/safety?
Would you be able to go to family counselling with them? have a family psychology expert who can help you all communicate freely and honestly and address what ever has been bubbling away all these years. Having worked within mental health and teenagers in care, I can tell you that nothing is ever black or white. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
Good luck.

westerlywind Tue 05-Nov-19 01:21:48

@Anna4 One incident of assault has been reported by a hospital nurse to Social Services. They met me and tried to get me to go to the Police. I refused to do that because I know that Police would want a witness and the only witness was a child. If the report to police had failed I would be in a lot more danger for no good reason.
I was babysitting for 4 days a week and providing money constantly. I asked for help with something and it was just ignored the same as ever. I stopped babysitting and I have not seen them since. I don't want my grandchildren to be used as sticks to beat me. That is not the purpose of children.
Life is a lot quieter now. I regaining some of my confidence. I had constantly been told that I was stupid and ugly and no-one likes me. I completely lost confidence that I would not even go outside. I am surprised when anyone engages me in conversation. I miss my DGC but they were starting to talk to me in the same manner as their parent and the absent neglectful absent parent who is the flavour of the day.
If this is the way they want to live so be it. I would rather be quiet and polite than be nasty.

Smileless2012 Tue 05-Nov-19 10:30:18

westerlywind it's terrible to learn of the emotional and physical abuse you have been subjected too and the affect it's hadsad.

To be regaining your confidence having been fearful of going outside, being told you are "stupid and ugly" and having been surprised if anyone wants to have a conversation with you, shows how far you've already come.

Children learn by example, they learn life lessons in part by seeing how their parents behave. It's such a shame that your GC are being 'taught' that it's OK to treat anyone in the way you have been treated, even worse that the victim is their GM.

We miss not knowing our GC and although not as raw as it was, after 7 years the pain of being estranged from our son remains. Like you, we "would rather be quiet and polite than be nasty".

We moved here 3 years ago yesterday, to put some distance between us so we could begin to heal and rebuild our lives. We have found peace and happiness we thought never to experience again.

I hope that you'll continue to move forward and find the peace and happiness you deserveflowers.

flowers.

westerlywind Tue 05-Nov-19 11:22:32

@Smileless Thank you for your kind comments. It has been a long road so far and there is more needed but I am working on it.
I worry how DGC will get on but it is not in my power to deal with that.
I have realised what is going on and I am dealing with it.

Alexa Tue 05-Nov-19 18:20:17

Anna4 from what I gather from your last post your beast of a husband has groomed his daughters and seduced them away from their original feelings with expensive gifts and stuff he has said.

Have you evidence of these extensive gifts and/or slandering you? I don't know how the law stands on this, or your chance of bringing him to justice.

For a little help with your immediate distress please keep sending updates to the grans. You are always welcome and will receive replies.

Anna4 Thu 07-Nov-19 00:44:08

Alexa, Yes I have plenty of evidence of my ex's efforts to alienate my D1 and D2...he buys them cars (Lexus models), pays for their ;family' vacations with him to the Caribbean and in the case of my D2 with 3 GKs , he has bought her a house which she lives in with her husband. My sister in law - who is a reliable sort, being an animal vet- has twice told me of his disparaging comments.

Kathy1959 Thu 07-Nov-19 10:34:16

My granny used to say, “ if in doubt, do nowt “ It seems there could be a multiple selection of reasons why you’re estranged, and knowing for sure, why this has happened, may still not lead to a resolution. I’m in the same camp as my granny! and other posts. Take a step back, and just wait. Hopefully, it’ll resolve naturally, and you’ll look back one day, and it will have been a blip. I think to keep badgering them could just push them further away. Concentrate on other things, and keep healthy and well, so when they do come back, you’ll be in a good place. All the best.

Alexa Thu 07-Nov-19 11:56:02

Anna, I'm suggesting your husband's deplorable behaviour vis a vis the children is a sufficient condition for their being partisan to him. They are still young women and cannot be objective about their father.

If this man were not your ex you would see him simply as a criminal not yet brought to justice for slander and alienation of affection. . Maybe you still feel affection for him which I would understand, and you will know cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable to live with which would be sufficient reason for your agony without the greater grief of alienation from the daughters. Perhaps it helps to regard your husband as morally corrupt and that you are more free of corruption than they are i.e. the stringer one whether you feel this to be the case or not.

Deliberate alienation from your children must surely be punishable by law? Can you afford to get legal help? Your children will suffer when they realise what he has been doing to their consciences.

If you take my advice you need to change your opinion of who you are. You are the strong one who knows the true circumstances of the situation, therefore not only do you not abase yourself to them but you also regard yourself as their rock as and when they see their relationships with their father for what it is. I gather they are still young enough to be mothers of young children.There is still a lot of time for them to become morally mature and more sceptical of their father's motives.

As for his motives, if those matter to you, he seems to need to buy affection.

Bibbity Sat 09-Nov-19 12:01:53

The children are adults so no PA isn’t illegal. And Slander would be extremely difficult to prove slander.
Unfortunately he’s broken no laws.

I’m so sorry OP. I’d do as advised and protect yourself first and foremost.

Chardy Sat 09-Nov-19 13:40:28

Family estrangement can happen for no reason other than the instigator can't bear to remember their family history. Sometimes for no discernible reason they come back. Keep the door open. Good luck

Starlady Sat 09-Nov-19 16:13:00

My heart is breaking for you, Anna4! How awful to be CO (cut off) from both DDs and all DGC, all at once, for so many months, and w/o a word of explanation! Though I've heard other stories like this, I still can barely imagine the pain.

I don't think you should brush off what happened last Christmas though. After all, that was the last time you socialized with your DDs and DGC before the CO. It sounds as if DD2 was very stressed, and that may have, unfortunately, colored her reactions. Changing a diaper the "wrong way" is an easy error to make if you (general) haven't done that in a while, and hardly CO-worthy, IMO. When put together w/ DD's accusation that you were ignoring one child, however, it may have seemed to her as if you were distracted and indifferent to her kids. OR she may have just been upset about your seeming to favor two over one. I'm NOT saying that's the case, just that it might have looked that way to her.

I get your giving her a generic apology in your desperation to reconnect. I might have done the same thing in your shoes. But as a GM, myself, I agree w/ Hithere that she may have been more offended by this, sad to say. Instead of realizing that you didn't know what was wrong, she may have seen it as a refusal to admit what was wrong... sigh... And since you already have issues w/ DD1, it was probably very easy for her to jump on board w/ this.

I also agree w/ Smileless and those who say to back off for now. Chances are one or both of your DDs will come around, eventually, even if it takes a much longer time than now. They will miss you or the kids will ask about you or whatever.

One caveat though- You might want to try one more apology, acknowledging that you were a little indifferent to the DGC that day last Christmas and saying sorry for that. You might add that you were tired, or distracted for some reason, but I wouldn't defend myself too much or she might see that as "making excuses." More important to reassure her you love all the grands and you won't let that happen again.
OR if you suspect it was just about not seeming to pay attention to that one GC, just apologize for that and assure her you love the child and that mistake won't happen again, etc. It might not help - just a suggestion. And, of course, only do this if you feel you really made a mistake and your heart is in the apology.

If you try this and it doesn't get a response, then I agree with others that you should just go on w/ your own life, enjoy your career and activities, etc. and say no more to your DDs for now.

Sending you lots of hugs!

Starlady Sat 09-Nov-19 16:14:15

About DD! - I understand why you still want to see her/have a relationship w/ her despite her violence towards you - she's your DD and you love her. But I would avoid being alone w/ her if she does resume contact or getting into any disagreements w/ her.

Namsnanny Sat 09-Nov-19 18:46:30

Chardy … what you have posted is the only truth there is for some of us. flowers

ReadyMeals Mon 11-Nov-19 09:29:27

Sounds like deliberate bullying to me. It's not your fault, children are born with a lot of their character defined by genetics. I read somewhere that according to some research (yes I know there are many differing opinions) 75% of the personality is genetically influenced with only a small part due to upbringing. You've done all the right things but sadly in this case it seems it's just given them more pleasure in your sorrow.