I have some questions

Yennifer -- Conflicts arise when people gas-light and pretend they are not doing it.

More conflict arises when people say things like, "I will always 'side' with..." based on their situation and when called on it/it is pointed out? More gas-lighting and rug-sweeping/denial from some.

The real conflict arises when some can see right through the same dysfunction we grew up with and they don't like it. I have no problem with seeing a bird floating on the water and quacking and calling it a duck. And if a duck doesn't want to be seen as such, perhaps it should stop fluffing its feathers, preening and quacking while floating on a pond and it won't get called a duck.

Happy Holidays to All.

I hope you enjoyed your bubble bath Yennifer; the "pre bedtime madness" sounds wonderful. Christmas needs children to make it really magical.

You're right GN is "a tiny bit addictive".

'Merry Christmas' x

"Conflict arises when people gas-light and pretend they are not doing it" absolutely HolyHannah and such a shame when it happens on Christmas Eve.

Let's hope that any lighting is now kept for our Christmas candles.

Merry Christmas.

Problems also arise when people's stories are not believed. Sometimes this seems to be because the story does not match the experience of another poster. It is a pity when that happens as of course there are so many different scenarios in estrangement. In then end estrangement is sad, even when it is the right and necessary thing for an AC/AP or GP to do.

There is a horrible unhealthy trend here of some EP threads "approving" some EACs who have laid bare their war wounds to them and have been deemed sufficiently abused to be the right kind of EAC.

It is disgusting and deeply unhealthy.

notanan There is a horrible unhealthy trend here of some EP threads "approving" some EACs who have laid bare their war wounds to them and have been deemed sufficiently abused to be the right kind of EAC

Which threads notanan ...I haven't picked up "approval" or otherwise, just an ongoing tendency for threads to descend in niggling and arguments, which I think is such a shame.

Ones where a bunch of EPs tell a (usually vulnerable/fragile) EAC poster that they have been sufficently abused to be the kind of EAC who is deserving of their "support"

Ones where a bunch of EPs tell a (usually vulnerable/fragile) EAC poster that they have been sufficently abused to be the kind of EAC who is deserving of their "support"

I haven't seen any quite like that. My observation would be that it is how posters (EAC/EPs/EGPs) express themselves that quite often causes the problems, not the "level/sufficiency of the abuse they have suffered. .

No, I haven't seen any threads like that either notanan.

I agree with you Madgran, it has nothing to do with how much or how little someone has suffered, it's how those experiences are expressed, and whether they can be expressed without lashing out at others who are also suffering.

There have been plenty of posts where EAC are told that NC is "allowed" if they have improbably machievellian disney villan parents.

Some more vulnerable/damaged posters then seek approval and lay their wounds bare to get "yay" or "nay"ed. Very unhealthy situation for a person who craves approval due to it lacking in their own upbringing.

And if approved, they are used as a stick to beat posters OWN AC with "well I never did THAT to MY children, so they dont pass the threshold for acceptable NCing"

So while there are some ACs "accepted" on EP threads, it is not a good/healthy place for them to be!

Smileless, you of all people have DEFINITELY seen the unhealthy threads I have seen being an active contributer to them! (And having personally driven posters from same)

Gas-lighting -- "Yes let's ignore anything that's off topic and let's ignore posts that bring into disrepute the claims that a poster made about EAC not being wanted and being bullied, when they weren't."

But some have been and ARE. SO...

I have a friend who is semi- estranged from her DD. Although they had always had a good relationship, after a 2 year stay in the USA the DD became convinced that all her problems (the stress of 2 children under 3 and a part time job) were down to her mother, and was encouraged by others to go NC. It hasn't entirely happened yet but friend has not seen her DGC for 6 months, despite DD and husband having returned to the UK earlier this year. Forgive me if I appear naive but the US cultish encouragement of going NC seems to be damaging to so many relationships. From posts I have seen GN appears to endorse posts from supporters of NC in the US, which is worrying. I can understand that there are genuine cases where people are better off without family influences but so much of the input from US posters is so entirely negative that it cannot be healthy. I shall stand by for the onslaught from the mortally offended brigade.

Wow tidy, in your friend's opinion, your friend is not the bad guy in her version of events! Fancy that what a turn up for the books!

There have been plenty of posts where EAC are told that NC is "allowed" if they have improbably machievellian disney villan parents.

I have seen posts where EAC have been offered support and have not villified for their decision.

Some more vulnerable/damaged posters then seek approval and lay their wounds bare to get "yay" or "nayed.

I'm not sure what the "yay" or "nayed" constitutes? There are arguments yes, but I don't see, or have missed, where EACs are told that their Non contact/estrangement decision was specifically not valid.

No Contact in my experience has IMPROVED my relationships because the ones I have now are healthy. My 'mom' may FEEL that she is the injured party but there is one common 'person' whenever relationship issues came up in my FOO. Her. So from her perspective No Contact is hurting HER but she doesn't CARE that contact with her hurts everyone but her.

And how does one determine who is 'American' or not unless they have stated?

I have seen posts where EAC have been offered support and have not villified for their decision.

Yeah... me too... once they meet the GN threshold of suffering disney villan type abuse, and have grovelled for a resolution till it near killed them!

People who just walk away because life is better without someone in it that with... but wasnt beaten black n blue daily and never fed or clothed... not so much!

*Yeah... me too... once they meet the GN threshold of suffering disney villan type abuse, and have grovelled for a resolution till it near killed them!
People who just walk away because life is better without someone in it that with... but wasn't beaten black n blue daily and never fed or clothed... not so much!*

I will spend a bit of time re reading some estrangement threads I think as this is not a consistent pattern of response that I have observed. Each estrangement scenario is individual to each person so I suppose responses would adjust accordingly but I think you are saying that sympathy is given only if a person has suffered physical abuse, rather than long term emotional abuse.

Nobody has any right to approve or otherwise another person's relationship end. It is not down to individual circumstances, nobody has to stay in a relationship with anyone they dont want to be with.

Two have to consent to remain in a relationship, but you do not need both party's consent to end it. And that is how it should be.

The giving of aproval which isn't yours to give is an unhealthy dynamic.

Yeah... me too... once they meet the GN threshold of suffering disney villan type abuse, and have grovelled for a resolution till it near killed them!

I have no recollection of that ever happening to me notanan. And I'm an EAC. But then again, I've never insisted that the pain and sorrow of being an EAC is in any way worse or "more valid" than that of an EP/EGP. I've recognised that, whoever you've become estranged from, and whatever your reason is for being where you are, the sadness and misery it causes is the same for all.

Notanan I am not trying to give approval atall, why on earth would I! As you say that is no-ones right. I am simply saying that you have presented me with a specific perspective on a pattern of responses that you have observed on this forum. It is not a pattern that I have observed and therefore I will spend a bit of time to see if I can see what you mean.

By individual circumstances I meant that the circumstances that made someone decide to estrange which will be individual to them. Of course no one has to stay in a relationship if they don't want to, I don't think that I have suggested that anyone should.

No Contact in my experience has IMPROVED my relationships because the ones I have now are healthy

Yes Holy Hannah, quite a few estranged posters have said that. I suppose that it is inevitable as one is removing oneself from an unhealthy relationship and therefore can focus only on healthy ones that both parties want

No one needs anyone’s permission to estrange from a parent, especially not the approval of anyone on this forum.

Not everything is a massive drama, heinous acts of cruelty or abuse don’t have to be the story behind an estrangement, although I’m aware they often are. Sometimes, it’s knowing you are neither liked, nor approved of, that you have not a single happy or warm memory of being with that parent, when being with them brings you down, and you know you’re a worse person when you’re with them.

Then it’s best to walk away, you don’t need to get anyone’s permission.

No one needs anyone’s permission to estrange from a parent, especially not the approval of anyone on this forum.

No-one needs anyone's permission to estrange from anyone, parent, child, grandparent, friend! Noone has suggested that they do. I am unsure why my comments appear to have been read as if I am suggesting that anyone needs permission. I have not suggested that and do not think it.

Yet again Sara65, you've said precisely what I've tried, rather clumsily, to say. This, for me, says it all:

Not everything is a massive drama, heinous acts of cruelty or abuse don’t have to be the story behind an estrangement, although I’m aware they often are. Sometimes, it’s knowing you are neither liked, nor approved of, that you have not a single happy or warm memory of being with that parent.

Thank you Sara65.