I have some questions

Why is there no understanding that people come here hurt and vulnerable and might lash out a little? Isn't that normal for everyone who finds their way here? Obviously there are some long standing disputes?
What about the balance of power between Ps and ACs? Is it not normal in a way for the ACs to assume a more defensive role when they havent been listened to for too long against people they can't help seeing as their elders?

Sorry if you thought this was specifically aimed at you Madgran, it wasn’t, truly.

Sara65 It followed straight on from my saying that I wasn't suggesting anyone needed to have permission so I misread it as a response to my comments. Apologies and thanks for your apology too

I'm not sure I can agree with you there Yennifer. From my own experiences here, I can only say that I've been met with understanding and kind support from the majority of posters.

Is it not normal in a way for the ACs to assume a more defensive role when they havent been listened to for too long against people they can't help seeing as their elders?

Again, I'm not sure that I can agree with that observation. I can't see why the hurt and pain that an AC has suffered is any more, or less, painful, or more "valid" than that suffered by an estranged parent. Pain is pain, isnt it? It all comes with its own baggage and history, surely? What makes one more legitimate than the other? Wouldn't it be better to be able to accept that, whatever the circumstances are surrounding an estrangement, it just bloody hurts?

* Why is there no understanding that people come here hurt and vulnerable and might lash out a little?*

Some people do seem to understand that Yennifer, some appear not to. Some who do understand, soon show that they will make allowances, others seem not to

* Is it not normal in a way for the ACs to assume a more defensive role when they haven't been listened to for too long against people they can't help seeing as their elders?*

The problem with this is that there are GPs/APs who haven't been listened to in their lives, also on this forum as well.

I think that the focus should be on people who are estranged and their stories rather than which "group" they belong to. I think that what happens is that some posters treat all posters who are in the "other group" as being an amorphous mass who are all the same as whoever they estranged themselves from. So no allowance is made for an EAC who has a different story to the AC they estranged from. Or for an EP/EGP who has a different story to that that EAC posters have experienced with their parents

Sorry, that is a bit convoluted!! Hope it makes sense!

I'm not asserting Chewbacca I promise. I am a fully fledged adult and I feel a little like a child talking to adults here. It might just be because this is very new to me. You seem a very confident person and I have never been very confident or assertive. It doesn't take much to make me doubt myself or my decision. I would like to get to a place where I didn't feel any need to justify it to myself or anyone else x

A this point my husband is snoring on the sofa and it looks like it is all on me to wait for everyone to fall asleep to take presents up so I'm just glad there are people around to chat to

I didn't say you were asserting Yennifer. I said that I didn't think that I could agree with your observations. That doesn't mean that I'm uber confident; just that I've had many, many years to think about my past and to reach the equilibrium and peace of mind that I have reached now.

I sincerely hope that you also reach a state that gives you peace of mind too. I wish you a Merry Christmas and Peaceful New Year.

Yes Chewbacca "pain is pain" and as you say "whatever the circumstances are surrounding an estrangement, it just bloody hurts".

As you say Madgran both EAC and EP's/GP can be, and are defensive for very good reasons and yes, your post does make sense.

With regard to your totally false allegation that I have driven posters away from estrangement threads notanan, I will treat that with the contempt it deserves.

Yennjifer it doesn't take much to make me doubt myself or my decision

I hope you can get to a point where you can resist the doubts. I have seen your comments on other threads and you seem to have thought so carefully about your reasons for estranging. I know you are sad about the loss of family relationships for your children, but to be honest the relationship with their parents and with good friends and other caring adults is so much more important

That time where you wait for children to sleep in order to "do" the presents ...is magical...at least it is when one looks back on it...but when experiencing that desperate tiredness whilst waiting, not so much!! But isn't it lovely when they all open the presents in the morning. I have such happy memories of those times at Christmas. Enjoy!

Yes! I'm a bit scared I will fall asleep, the TV is really boring this year

TV ..it is isn't it!! [hmmm]

You realise you don't have to tell everyone you don't agree all the time right? It's much less confrontational to just say "here is how I look at things" rather than "I don't agree with YOU" then people wonder why someone would ever feel uncomfortable and decide it must be their fault.